[ekianjo]

I happen to know that sector very well (among others) and it has always struck me how dirty it has always been. Paying doctors to go to the tropical islands for so called "scientific conferences", giving kickbacks vs the number of subscriptions for your drug, manipulating the studies results to make them look better than they actually are, cherry picking the results to get an approval... just list any of the worst practices ever and you can be sure the pharma industry has it. And you get random news here and there on how X big company did this or that (recently Pfizer caught red handed in Japan) but still business continues as usual.

The motivation of your friends may be noble, but that's probably because they don't work in the functions which directly relate to these activities. Just open your eyes (and the news).

[wuschel]

> [..] tropical islands [..] manipulating the studies results [..]

I did not want to argue with you that there is no dirty business in pharmaceuticals or chemistry. All I am saying is that dirty tricks and evil strategies are found throughout the industry, and not only in the medical sector. It is just in the medical sector that one sees the most dramatic consequences.

Go to car development, pre-emptive war, OS software, taxi drivers, banks, and I am sure you will find some good examples of low humans can fall.

[ekianjo]

The issue with the Pharma industry is that in most countries, the consumer/patient is NOT the one who pays directly for the drug. You have insurance systems, social security groups and so on who are in charge of paying most of the expenses, and on the other side, doctors who are the only ones in charge of providing the drug. So, the pharma industry is very much prone to corrupt practices because they do not have to sell directly to patients and can control who delivers the drug to who in the end. Therefore they will not see any hurt in sales no matter what they are found doing (except for cases where they have hidden deleterious health effects, which is really the worst practice of all).

In the car industry, if you make a crappy car, people will notice it and will stop trusting your brand. In pharmaceuticals, you will never see that. I even wonder how companies like that are allowed to keep operating when they are found blatantly lying about serious health consequences. They should be put out of business.

[wuschel]

> .. patient is NOT the one who pays directly for the drug ..

Ok, I can accept this argument. Basically, there is an incentive to trick the system. Unfortunatly, I am not a doctor, and as such I do not have the experience to judge the effectiveness of various medical treatments and give an example how well or bad the pharmaceutical industry is really treating us.

What is the the real gain of our health risk insurance systems? I know enough people who are dependent on daily medication of strong systemic substances, and they can live a life without too much suffering while not worrying that this flow of medicine might stop because their bank account is empty. In some way, society has to step in when individuals - even in large amount - fail to live within the system.

Having said that, how would it be possible to improve this status quo?