[Jd]

It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government.

For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a customer satisfaction survey implemented across the board. You might actually be able to implement something like this in a favorable political environment (there's no law saying that TSA has to attempt to piss off every person that comes through our borders). I've noticed that some of these completely dysfunctional agencies seem to attract the worst sort of bad eggs, so with something like that you could at least weed out some of the most underperforming TSA mob squads.

[GauntletWizard]

The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.

[catilac]

You don't think its weird to be strip searched, and kept from contacting worried parties, because you decided to play a non-profit show without a visa?

Law or not, I don't think that makes sense.

[MichaelGG]

And how is CBP supposed to know his entire intention was just to play a couple of non-profit shows? He admits he will be compensated (tips and food) for the shows. Maybe after that he's planning on getting paid shows, or something.

As I understand the law, he could have stayed and appealed the decision. Not that they're going to tell you that or help you out - they're allowed to lie to you and so on.

Strip searching seems very excessive, as does the entire handling. But fundamentally, interrogating someone that appears to be going to violate their visa is one of the reasons for having CBP at all.

[catilac]

Fair point. We have CBP for many reasons.

The mishandling is the primary issue at hand.

I wish there were honest statistics available, so that people could know for a fact that yes, there are or are not actually a lot of extreme cases like this.

[MichaelGG]

The only "extreme" part is that we're deciding this guy is "innocent" and not worthy of the level of scrutiny. Being interrogated and searched is very commonplace. So you'd need stats that somehow report how many people they interrogated and searched that they didn't consider to be suspicious. I doubt they'll report a very high number, of course.

Best stat I can think of is "how many strip searches resulted in allowing the person to enter the country", which is also probably fairly low. By that time, they've probably decided to deny you entry.

Neither shows or prevents mistreatment that the CBP deems OK, which seems to be the case here.

[megablast]

They do not have a law saying people who try to play non-profit shows are strip searched.

They probably do have a law saying anyone who is denied entry is strip searched and not allowed to contact anyone.

[wpietri]

Mexico has a similar law. Near where my parents live, they recently started enforcing it with some vigor. The problem being that foreign musicians (mostly Americans) were playing shows for "donations". Whether that was actual donations or bar owners donating was unclear, but either way it was plausible that these people were displacing musicians entitled to work.

The shorter version: jackasses getting around a law cause more laws, ruining things for everybody.

[agarden]

I have another interpretation: bad laws are impossible to enforce in a just way. I have no idea why anyone should be required to have a special visa to work in the US. Because we are selfish?

[MichaelGG]

"I have no idea why anyone should be required to have a special visa to work in the US. Because we are selfish?"

Seriously? If the US didn't have immigration requirements, half the world would move there, causing the society and infrastructure to collapse? I can't see how unrestricted immigration benefits the US at all (I'm not a US citizen).

[alexeisadeski3]

Immigration wasn't restricted until the 20th century (in any meaningful way), and the US didn't seem to suffer too bad.

[MichaelGG]

I'd wager that A: the disparity between countries is larger and more well-known now, and B: the ease of physically travelling to the US is far easier now.

[alexeisadeski3]

And I'd wager that the cost of living is higher now, relative to the other countries.

[wpietri]

The Model T started production in 1908 and the first commerical airline flight was in 1914. The state of the art for sea transportation around then was the Titantic, which sank in 1912. So maybe that had something to do with it.

[wpietri]

Perhaps you should try getting some idea, then. It's not like there hasn't been a ton written on this.

[gaadd33]

How were they displacing musicians? If I'm in a place and I go see $BAND, I would assume I'm going to see $BAND, not some random local band.

[wpietri]

Sure, but not everybody is like you. The random bands play at the random local bars. There, the music isn't the focus; it's more backdrop.

[mullingitover]

I find it very interesting that in the globalization of trade, capital is free to flow across borders without hassle. Labor, not so much.

[alive-or-not]

Capital easily bribes politicians, labor not so much.

[anigbrowl]

Until fairly recently labor was bending over backwards to enforce such controls in the belief that such laws were effective protections for American workers. The union movement is historically skeptical of markets and its adherents mostly subscribe uncritically to the 'lump of labor' fallacy. It's only in the last few years that they have jumped on the bandwagon for immigration reform; prior to that they were happy to blame a lot of their own structural problems on an influx of Mexicans.

[outworlder]

Yes. And the guy should have been deported for not having the correct VISA. End of story. The abusive behavior is not excusable.

Now, imagine that happened with his gf. Imagine its your gf being strip searched, having done nothing to warrant that.

For a country that's worried sick about 'terrorism', some agencies sure like to piss off people. Somehow, I don't think that's the correct approach.

[Amadou]

I'd like to see a customer satisfaction survey implemented across the board.

It needs to have teeth.

All of these problems are the result of giving people responsibility without accountability.

As it is now, the only accountability they have is whether or not something 'bad' happens. But the actual chance of something bad happening is so low that it is no more than statistical noise. So no matter what they do, they can claim it is necessary and effective because, see nothing bad happened!

Adding additional dimensions of accountability is the only way to reign in the bullshit. Customer satisfaction surveys would be a step in the right direction, but the organizations who currently enjoy the carte blanche of zero accountability will fight any meaningful reform tooth and nail.

[Gravityloss]

It can be much more of a cultural issue than an accountability one.

Often people behave very ethically without supervision.

[Amadou]

Often people behave very ethically without supervision.

Individuals yes, absolutely. Organizations no, never.

[nraynaud]

This is not about statistics, this is terrorism, you want 0 occurrences. You don't use gaussians and distributions on fat uneducated Americans investigating people's anus.

[rhizome]

I don't think any rate of change of instances of abuse matters a whit. As for the TSA/HSA, I really think there's a case of governmental PTSD and they really have no idea what they're doing, so they just fuck with everybody. There's no strategy, they just collect all the data at the NSA, crawl up your asshole at the airport, detain you for a random number of days, and call these policies of full-spectrum personal invasions "protecting the country." They hire the stupidest, weakest and most unquestioning people so that they will perform perfectly robotically, with a maximum snitch factor. Seriously, they're just guessing.