[icecreampain]

The funny part is that its a specific opinion, also.

Questioning the existence of the Holodomor, for example, even though it conservatively resulted in the deaths of 7 million people in one single year, more than the whole "6 million jews in 6 years" thing, is not illegal.

In fact most people in Europe are blissfully unaware of the Holodomor at all. Or of Stalin's and Mao's murdered millions.

Strange, yes?

[JVIDEL]

Not strange at all, the problem is that you had an entire generation ripping through Paris' streets throwing bricks at the police while holding mao's book in their hands when in china people were dying by the millions due to the pogroms better known as the "cultural revolution", one of the biggest success stories in marketing considering mao was able to repackage state-sanctioned genocide with a cool name less than 10 years after the abysmal failure of the "great leap forward" which also claimed the lives of million of chinese.

For those people acknowledging the holodomor and giving it the same status of the holocaust or even that of the armenian genocide means admitting they spent most of their youth defending mass murderers.

[moocowduckquack]

Umm, the holomodor was under Stalin in the early thirties, everyone alive then is dead now. edit - well, everyone who was old enough to be involved in the politics, anyway.

Also, it is illegal in France to deny the communist mass atrocities, just as it is illegal to deny the nazi ones.

What are you talking about?

[JVIDEL]

Ask trotsky how easy it was to be a communist in the thirties and not defend stalin.

And got a link to that? because all I could find was a petition from eastern european countries to the UE asking for penalties on deniers of the crimes of communism.

[moocowduckquack]

Actually, I am wrong about France.

It has a law from 1990 which criminalises denying those crimes against humanity covered by the Nuremberg Charter, however that only dealt with trying the Axis powers, so doesn't cover the USSR.

There is then the law that got brought in in 2012 that makes it a crime to deny any genocide recognised as such as by the state. However that law got struck down by a court, and also they might count what happened in the USSR as a mass atrocity rather than a genocide, so it might not have covered it.

[moocowduckquack]

The laws vary, but in many of these countries, such as the Czech Republic, France, Hungary, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland and Switzerland, denying those acts would also be illegal and they are far from blissfully unaware of the impact of Stalin and Mao.

edit - if you are going to post on the subject of the legal positions on political denial of events, then it helps to do some research to check that you are not actually talking bollocks yourself.

[icecreampain]

I've looked it up real quick but I can't see the Holodomor being illegal to deny in any other country other than the Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor#Holodo...

Or are you talking about something else?

[vidarh]

Ironically you need to look under laws against Holocaust Denial to find anything useful about it on Wikipedia as far as I can tell, as that page includes references to laws that more generally disallows denial of genocides and crimes against humanity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

France and Germany, for example, has laws that while containing bits and pieces that are specific to nazism, also targets genocide and crimes against humanity in general.

Switzerland and Portugal are examples of countries with laws that don't explicitly mention Holocaust denial but where many forms of Holocaust denial is covered by laws placing restrictions on denial of genocide in general.

[moocowduckquack]

I was wrong about France actually. It appears that the wording in the French law is narrower than it first appears.

It is a bit confusing as it looks wider until you consider the condition "such as they are defined by Article 6 of the statute of the international tribunal military annexed in the agreement of London of August 8, 1945". That tribunal explicitly was only able to rule on acts carried out by Axis countries, so this law only applies to those acts specifically.

[moocowduckquack]

Look up the laws of the countries that I referenced. They have laws that either outlaw denying any genocide, or laws outlawing the denial of the nazi and communist genocides and mass atrocities.

Also, "I've looked it up real quick but I can't see" is hardly the way to approach this if you think you have even the slightest point.

[wslh]

What is your point? Do you think that the Armenian genocide, together with other genocides should be added to the undeniable things or do you think that the Holocaust denial laws must be "deprecated"?

[icecreampain]

I wish for no thought crimes at all.