[mkrecny]

I watched that. Here's my take:

Fiance: I am and will continue to sleep with other men.

Bukowski: You fing w*re [kicks].

Relationships are hard. While I don't agree with physical or verbal abuse, I think in this case Fiance probably hurt Bukowski more with her words than he did with his kick. It certainly didn't seem like he was kicking her because he "thought it was funny to kick women".

[mkrecny]

Reason for downvote?

[lotsofcows]

Apparently it's acceptable to downvote without providing an argument. It's anonymous and requires no thought so it's very popular.

[sz4kerto]

No, just there are people who understand why physical abuse and violence is not tolerable in _any_ situation, especially not against the weak. People who equate physical and verbal violence (by verbal violence I mean anything not physical) either have no idea what they're talking about or they're mentally ill.

[mkrecny]

I agree, physical and verbal violence should not be equated. But not because verbal violence is clearly less damaging than physical violence. It's complicated, and subjective and different for everyone.

I'm totally against _any_ type of violence. But I've met and studied enough people who carry around a lifetime of mental illnesses caused verbal violence (esp. at a young age) to be able to say that one is worse than the other.

[madaxe]

Yes, and those people are the same folks who give women who are violent or abusive to men a free pass, as women can't be violent against men as men are so much stronger than women.

[king_jester]

> While I don't agree with physical or verbal abuse, I think in this case Fiance probably hurt Bukowski more with her words than he did with his kick.

So you do agree with physical abuse. According to you, if your partner says something that upsets you, its totally OK to hit them. That is domestic abuse 101.

[mkrecny]

> So you do agree with physical abuse. According to you, if your partner says something that upsets you, its totally OK to hit them. That is domestic abuse 101.

That's absurd. Where did I say "if your partner says something that upsets you, it's totally OK to hit them"?

I stated that:

a) Bukowski's fiance probably hurt Bukowski (by stating that she cheats on him) more than he did by kicking her.

b) It didn't seem like his reasons for kicking her were because he "thought it was funny to kick women."

Please read more carefully before you troll me, sir.

[king_jester]

> a) Bukowski's fiance probably hurt Bukowski (by stating that she cheats on him) more than he did by kicking her.

Why would that be relevant whatsoever to why someone kicks their partner? You said you don't agree with abuse as a preface and then immediately put physical abuse on the level with having your feelings hurt by something someone said.

I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been, but these kinds of statements happen all the time as a way to create a justification for the abuse inflicted on someone. It's not only abusers that do this, but people that are friends and acquaintances of both the abuser and abused.

[mkrecny]

> Why would that be relevant whatsoever to why someone kicks their partner? You said you don't agree with abuse as a preface and then immediately put physical abuse on the level with having your feelings hurt by something someone said.

1. I stated that I don't agree with abuse (physical or emotional).

2. I stated that in this case I thought the emotional abuse Bukowski's fiance inflicted on Bukowski was worse than the physical abuse he inflicted on her. That's my opinion. I think the way that she casually taunted him with her infidelity is _serious_ abuse. The kick is also terribly abusive.

I don't know all the facts, only what I saw in the video. I don't know if Bukowski went on to be a serial abuser or not, but that's not relevant to what happened in the video, which is the subject of this discussion.

You say: "I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been" - the answer is yes. I don't know if you've ever been cheated on by someone you're in love with.

[king_jester]

> 2. I stated that in this case I thought the emotional abuse Bukowski's fiance inflicted on Bukowski was worse than the physical abuse he inflicted on her. That's my opinion. I think the way that she casually taunted him with her infidelity is _serious_ abuse. The kick is also terribly abusive.

How exactly is being honest about not wanting and not committing to a monogamous relationship on an equal playing field as getting hit? Moreover, even if you considered that verbally and/or emotionally abusive, that in no way justifies hitting someone.

> I don't know if Bukowski went on to be a serial abuser or not, but that's not relevant to what happened in the video, which is the subject of this discussion.

If Bukowski was a serial abuser, it is most certainly 100% relevant to the video in question. Domestic abuse isn't about a single incident, its about a continuum of behavior and events.

> You say: "I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been" - the answer is yes. I don't know if you've ever been cheated on by someone you're in love with.

I have, but hitting someone and being cheated on are not even remotely on the same playing field. In fact, it is a common tactic for abusers to accuse or blame partners for the abuse by insinuating or referring to actual past instances of cheating.

[mkrecny]

> "but hitting someone and being cheated on are not even remotely on the same playing field"

Hey man, I think we've covered some interesting ground here, but I think we just have to agree to disagree. I certainly don't think that cheating should be punished with physical abuse. However, I do think that the cheating on someone who you're engaged to and clearly expects monogamy is worse than hitting someone once. I just do.

Also, let's not forget that, whilst unacceptable, the kick was solicited by her admission of infidelity, whereas the infidelity is seemingly unsolicited.

[madaxe]

You don't think that screwing around and then rubbing it in your partner's face is abuse?

[overgryphon]

No, it's not. A partner's monogamy is a gift, not an entitlement.

[freyr]

Perhaps to you. To others, monogamy in a romantic relationship is a requirement and a reasonable expectation.

Couples should figure out where they stand on that, before they resort to kicking.

[mkrecny]

Whether or not monogamy is a gift or an entitlement depends entirely on your culture / value system. I think that abusing someone's trust is, well, abusive.

[rfnslyr]

You have never been in a deep relationship before have you?

[overgryphon]

But he thought it was acceptable to kick her. That's abusive.

[mkrecny]

I agree that it was abusive of Bukowski to kick her. 100%. That's doesn't mean that he kicked her because, "he thought it was funny to kick women". I think it's clear from the video that he kicked her because he was upset that she was cheating on him. I think he was entitled to be upset, but not entitled to kick her.

[Marwy]

I'm wondering if your reading comprehension is really that bad or there's something else going on with you.