[king_jester]

> a) Bukowski's fiance probably hurt Bukowski (by stating that she cheats on him) more than he did by kicking her.

Why would that be relevant whatsoever to why someone kicks their partner? You said you don't agree with abuse as a preface and then immediately put physical abuse on the level with having your feelings hurt by something someone said.

I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been, but these kinds of statements happen all the time as a way to create a justification for the abuse inflicted on someone. It's not only abusers that do this, but people that are friends and acquaintances of both the abuser and abused.

[mkrecny]

> Why would that be relevant whatsoever to why someone kicks their partner? You said you don't agree with abuse as a preface and then immediately put physical abuse on the level with having your feelings hurt by something someone said.

1. I stated that I don't agree with abuse (physical or emotional).

2. I stated that in this case I thought the emotional abuse Bukowski's fiance inflicted on Bukowski was worse than the physical abuse he inflicted on her. That's my opinion. I think the way that she casually taunted him with her infidelity is _serious_ abuse. The kick is also terribly abusive.

I don't know all the facts, only what I saw in the video. I don't know if Bukowski went on to be a serial abuser or not, but that's not relevant to what happened in the video, which is the subject of this discussion.

You say: "I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been" - the answer is yes. I don't know if you've ever been cheated on by someone you're in love with.

[king_jester]

> 2. I stated that in this case I thought the emotional abuse Bukowski's fiance inflicted on Bukowski was worse than the physical abuse he inflicted on her. That's my opinion. I think the way that she casually taunted him with her infidelity is _serious_ abuse. The kick is also terribly abusive.

How exactly is being honest about not wanting and not committing to a monogamous relationship on an equal playing field as getting hit? Moreover, even if you considered that verbally and/or emotionally abusive, that in no way justifies hitting someone.

> I don't know if Bukowski went on to be a serial abuser or not, but that's not relevant to what happened in the video, which is the subject of this discussion.

If Bukowski was a serial abuser, it is most certainly 100% relevant to the video in question. Domestic abuse isn't about a single incident, its about a continuum of behavior and events.

> You say: "I don't know if you yourself has been in an abuse relationship or know anyone that has been" - the answer is yes. I don't know if you've ever been cheated on by someone you're in love with.

I have, but hitting someone and being cheated on are not even remotely on the same playing field. In fact, it is a common tactic for abusers to accuse or blame partners for the abuse by insinuating or referring to actual past instances of cheating.

[mkrecny]

> "but hitting someone and being cheated on are not even remotely on the same playing field"

Hey man, I think we've covered some interesting ground here, but I think we just have to agree to disagree. I certainly don't think that cheating should be punished with physical abuse. However, I do think that the cheating on someone who you're engaged to and clearly expects monogamy is worse than hitting someone once. I just do.

Also, let's not forget that, whilst unacceptable, the kick was solicited by her admission of infidelity, whereas the infidelity is seemingly unsolicited.

[king_jester]

> I certainly don't think that cheating should be punished with physical abuse. However, I do think that the cheating on someone who you're engaged to and clearly expects monogamy is worse than hitting someone once. I just do.

Cheating on someone is a violation of that person's trust. Hitting your partner is violation of their physical integrity.

> Also, let's not forget that, whilst unacceptable, the kick was solicited by her admission of infidelity, whereas the infidelity is seemingly unsolicited.

What is the point of making this statement if not to excuse her getting hit or to make her getting hit seem like "she was asking for it"?

[madaxe]

You don't think that screwing around and then rubbing it in your partner's face is abuse?

[overgryphon]

No, it's not. A partner's monogamy is a gift, not an entitlement.

[freyr]

Perhaps to you. To others, monogamy in a romantic relationship is a requirement and a reasonable expectation.

Couples should figure out where they stand on that, before they resort to kicking.

[king_jester]

It may well be that someone has a reasonable expectation of monogamy, but that's entirely irrelevant. If you don't like the way your partner acts in a relationship, you don't hit them, you talk about it and possibly break it off.

[mkrecny]

Whether or not monogamy is a gift or an entitlement depends entirely on your culture / value system. I think that abusing someone's trust is, well, abusive.

[king_jester]

> I think that abusing someone's trust is, well, abusive.

She seemed to be straight up honest about that fact she didn't want a monogamous relationship, where is the abuse of trust in that?

[rfnslyr]

You have never been in a deep relationship before have you?