[patrickaljord]

It's not tirade against taxes in general, it's a tirade against spending. Don't you understand that states have clearly refused to cut their spending and that their only answer is more taxes? We're already at 60 to 70% taxes here in France and they always need more because they refuse to cut spending, not only do they refuse to cut them but they make them bigger each year. First they're coming for Google and Amazon but you don't care because they're not you, then they'll come for your money. Here in France even if you earn around €40k, you're close to a 50% tax already when you sum they all up. They are so desperate that they even went after Nutella to tax the palm oil they use pretending it was dangerous even though scientist said there was nothing special about it [1].

The second article of the Déclaration des droits de l'Homme clearly states that private and individual properties ought to be protected. Where is the respect for private property when 50% of your property is taken by force by the State every year. Our whole revolution was about fighting unfair taxation, privileges for the few and insane State spending... and now we're back to square 1.

1: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/12/france-nutella-a...

[phpnode]

As a French citizen, do you think it's fair that you get taxed at a high rate whilst some huge, billion dollar business pays significantly less in terms of percentage?

Whether the French tax rate is too high or not is not relevant. The question is, should a foreign company be given an unfair advantage compared to a local company? I would hope your answer is 'no'.

[patrickaljord]

Google and Amazon already pay plenty enough taxes here, they employ thousands of people and pay millions in salary tax. They contribute to improving people's life thanks to their great products unlike the State that only creates more debt.

But to answer your question, I think that as a French citizen I pay too much tax and I'm glad Google and Amazon are able to get away with it. I applaud anyone who manages to not feed the beast. I, on the contrary, feel guilty for paying so much tax and helping keep this monster of State alive. The answer is less tax for everyone, not more tax especially on the company that actually manage to make a lot of money and create a lot of work. And yes, local companies are dying here because of the crazy taxation, and taxing Google and Amazon more wouldn't change anything for local companies.

[Nursie]

>> I think that as a French citizen I pay too much tax and I'm glad Google and Amazon are able to get away with it.

Even though their activities directly increase your own tax bill. You have an odd way of thinking.

>> taxing Google and Amazon more wouldn't change anything for local companies.

Of course it would, their tax avoidance games mean nobody else can compete.

You can argue that lower tax for everyone is a good thing, but I really don't see how you can argue for the perpetuation of special exemptions for those that can afford it.

[patrickaljord]

> Even though their activities directly increase your own tax bill. You have an odd way of thinking.

The French State creates € 12 billions in debt each month [1]. If you think them paying any more taxes would decrease my tax bill in any way, then you have an odd way of doing math.

1: http://www.planetoscope.com/comptes-publics/315-compteur-de-...

> Of course it would, their tax avoidance games mean nobody else can compete.

Are you seriously saying that the reason Google has no competition in France is because they pay less taxes? Even Microsoft, the multi-billion dollar company failed to do so with Bing but if only Google paid its full taxes then French companies would be able to take over is what you're saying? I very much doubt that.

> I really don't see how you can argue for the perpetuation of special exemptions for those that can afford it

As long as there is no low flat-tax but unfair and complicated tax system. People will always try to avoid it. Get rid of your insane tax system and you'll get rid of these special exemptions. Just like getting rid of alcohol prohibition got rid of the bootlegging problems.

[Nursie]

>> If you think them paying any more taxes would decrease my tax bill in any way, then you have an odd way of doing math.

Them paying more would either relieve the burden on other parts of society, slow down the debt accumulation (even just a little bit), or allow the government to spend more on public services. All of these three have an impact on your life. If you think it would have no effect at all then you have an odd way of doing math.

>> Are you seriously saying that the reason Google has no competition in France is because they pay less taxes?

Maybe, who knows? But what we have at the moment is market distortion and monetary advantages for multinationals that can play these games. Certainly the likes of Starbucks (who pay little to no UK tax) have a direct financial advantage against smaller operators and local chains.

>> As long as there is no low flat-tax but unfair and complicated tax system.

This is a pipe dream, and any flat tax I've ever seen proposed is highly regressive, loading the burden onto the middle classes (and away from the very wealthy). What I find most amusing about it is how the very wealthy have so many cheerleaders who are in effect arguing for higher taxes for themselves.

>> People will always try to avoid it.

Yes, but you seem to be supporting your own country getting screwed by large corporations and transferring that burden to yourself, French companies and French citizens.

>> Get rid of your insane tax system and you'll get rid of these special exemptions. Just like getting rid of alcohol prohibition got rid of the bootlegging problems.

It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

[patrickaljord]

>> Them paying more would either relieve the burden on other parts of society, slow down the debt accumulation (even just a little bit), or allow the government to spend more on public services.

But this is exactly what I'm saying, the more taxes we pay, the more the government spends and create debt. The only way out of this vicious circle is _less_ spending, not more tax. We've been doing more taxes for 60 years and we have more debts than ever.

> Are you seriously saying that the reason Google has no competition in France is because they pay less taxes?

>> Maybe, who knows?

Ok, you're just not being honest right now just to win the argument. Or you're delusional.

>> This is a pipe dream, and any flat tax I've ever seen proposed is highly regressive, loading the burden onto the middle classes

I don't know in what world you live in, but here in France, the burden is already on the middle class. The rich are all domiciled outside of France where they pay much less (around 10 to 15%). A low flat tax around 10 to 15% would bring them back as they would have no interest in going abroad. Many countries have a flat tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_that_have_fl...

>> Yes, but you seem to be supporting your own country getting screwed by large corporations and transferring that burden to yourself, French companies and French citizens.

No, I think you are. By setting too high taxes, you make the rich run away and pay their taxes elsewhere, leaving the burden on the middle class who's dying.

>> It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

It is actually. Just not in the interest of the current governments (both left and right are socialist in France).