[icelancer]

Or shouldn't it be used to promote alternative methods of education that are accepted by many employers?

STEM fields by and large are the most friendly towards alternative (or complete lack of) education. A well-manicured GitHub, a decent resume, and not looking like an idiot in an interview trumps most college degrees for mid-level developer jobs that aren't Facebook/Google/etc.

[pornsrus]

I work for a 600 people company. We are at least one level below Facebook/Google. I once interviewed a guy from Microsoft for a senior position. Everybody liked him. But we couldn't make him an offer because he doesn't have a degree. Blame this on the stupid US immigration policy. If we hire him, we'll have to let go all the H-1B holders, me included, on his team because the logic of US immigration service goes like this: "If you can hire an American without degree for this position, what are these foreigners with degree doing here?".

[auctiontheory]

Interesting, but did the INS really say that? Steve (Jobs') and Bill's lack of university degree never stopped Apple and Microsoft from hiring H-1B holders.

[pornsrus]

Steve and Bill are the founder of the company, aren't they? Also, for companies as big as Apple and Microsoft, they'll be able to find a position for the guy without a degree. The restriction only applies to comparable positions. Steve Jobs not having a degree has nothing to do with me being hired on H-1B as a software engineer.

[hayksaakian]

Thanks for the pointer, I'll keep this in mind if I consider applying for companies that prioritize hiring H1Bs.

[philwelch]

By "STEM fields" you mean "programming". Or do you know of many scientists, mathematicians, or engineers (real engineers, not programmers) who succeed without a formal education?

[krakensden]

In bioscience jobs there are definitely pipette monkey -> manager stories, and you don't particularly need much in the way of qualifications for the former.

I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

[icelancer]

>I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

I am not. I would have said programming if I had meant it.

ETA: Ironically enough, I am a non-degree holder (dropout) working in a non-programming STEM field. My bio is a bit out of date since I have indeed gotten out of the data science community.

[icelancer]

Quite a few. I meant what I wrote, thanks.

[phaus]

If you have a good resume but no degree, that almost certainly means you have job experience. Of course actual experience trumps a college degree, that's why its so hard for new graduates to get a job. I know things are going well on the west coast, but around the DC/MD/VA area most companies are asking for 3-5 years of 40 hour/week experience, a TS clearance with a polygraph, and a B.S. in Computer Science for entry level jobs. They are called entry-level positions simply because they plan on paying you 40-50k even with the ridiculous requirements.

[_wp3r]

That employment environment around DC is insane. The time-tables that the government operates on would prevent almost any jobless applicant from chasing a job. When I got out of the Marine Corps year before last, I of course applied for many government contracting jobs within my field. Of the 30-40 jobs I applied for that specifically required my unique skill set, I received request for interviews from 25. I applied for these jobs in September, and received the first follow up contact from the employers in July of the following year. Keeping in mind that I have 10 years experience in a very specialized field with a TS/POLY, and extremely high demand for my skill set. Not sure what I am trying to point out except that government job creation would takes years to actually affect change on unemployment numbers.

On a side note, I did find a job with a startup, but that was because of a chance encounter while trolling the right bars every night for 3 weeks looking for that chance. Smiles and handshakes always trump resumes.