[marvin]

I'd also like to add that the word "creeper" should be kept out of these discussions. It seems obvious that sexism is very common in United States computer culture. But the word "creepy", when used to describe an undesirable man, is every bit as derogatory as "fattie" or "slut" when applied to a woman. It's the kind of word that is used for character assasination.

As you say, it doesn't go well when you imply that every man in a large group is supporting sexist behavior. The proper way to handle this issue is to just be direct when someone is behaving inappropriately and not use ambiguous language:

"Don't touch girls who obviously don't want it - that is sexual harassment. Not cool."

"Stop treating this woman like a sex object in a social setting - it is inappropriate."

"Don't stare, it makes people uncomfortable."

One final thought which I haven't heard from anyone else: I think one thing that can make a lot of nerd guys angry when it comes to this kind of behavior, is that many less-than-socially-masterful guys observe that women may respond very negatively to behavior that other men get away with. How sexual harassment is handled by women is very dependent on the situation and instigating person. The exact same behavior which would be met with disgust and derision at a tech conference, could be considered flirtatious and hot if it came in the right tone of voice from a hot guy at a nightclub.

This is obviously no excuse for acting like an asshole in the tech community. But I think a lot of people severely underestimate the role that status, attractiveness and social skill has when it comes to these questions. The tech scene is not the only social environment where sexism and misogny occurs, but it is certainly the one with the highest concentration of men that can safely be shamed for it.

[theorique]

The exact same behavior which would be met with disgust and derision at a tech conference, could be considered flirtatious and hot if it came in the right tone of voice from a hot guy at a nightclub.

Exactly! Context is so important. And something that would be experienced as "inappropriate" at a given moment might be the perfect thing to do half an hour later. It's all about making other people comfortable in your presence.

[chrisro]

>The proper way to handle this issue is to just be direct when someone is behaving inappropriately and not use ambiguous language

It is not the responsibility of women to educate when they feel uncomfortable or fear for their safety.

[hackinthebochs]

Responsibility is the wrong word here. If women want certain behaviors to stop, it is logical for them to explain exactly what they don't like. Expecting already awkward men to read minds is self-defeating.

[chrisro]

It is not logical for a woman (or anyone really) to remain in a situation that makes her uncomfortable and especially not logical to remain in a situation where she fears for her safety. Responsibility was the correct word--the onus on creepers to stop being creepers, not the women who are being creeped on or harassed to explain why that behavior is inappropriate.

Also, awkward isn't synonymous with creepy. See rosser's reply elsewhere in this thread for a better explanation of creepy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5975094

[hackinthebochs]

Of course there are many situations where simply removing yourself isn't the end of the story--coworkers, friends of friends, etc. One should be encouraged to speak up in situations where they are made to feel uncomfortable, especially considering that "creepy" itself is a subjective experience. But its not that they have a responsibility to, it's simply an effective way to communicate your wishes to another person. Expecting someone who is being creepy to just know that they're being creepy seems almost oxymoronic.

[chrisro]

Women/people certainly CAN choose to educate. Your presumption that she SHOULD or, rather, "The proper way to handle this issue is..." is what I took issue with. There is no "proper way to handle this issue" except the way that makes the violated feel safer. If that means she moves away from the perpetrator, then that is proper way. If it means opening a dialogue about improper behavior, then that is the proper way too. Ultimately, it comes down to the woman/person in question.