[goldfeld]

Taking the internet as a whole, I think what ads contribute negatively more than offsets what small businesses and independent publishers gain from, well, existing and surviving because of ads. If that wasn't an option, we'd be forced to come up with more intelligent business models that would also tend to respect more the end user (i.e. so I'm not the product).

Making ad revenue, e.g. from Google, means you're reinforcing the big corporations who really need to market themselves through ads--those are the ones who could not live without ads (they need the constant intrusive, paid-for flow of unwilling eyeballs to keep their investors happy), not the independ publishers (who I think could.) Niche ad networks are alright, but nevertheless they contribute to making it easy not to think hard (and work hard) to pursue alternate business models.

[chaz]

Advertising is a two-sided market. As a business with a product/service to be advertised, how would I go about acquiring customers without ads? Everyone from credit card companies to the local dentist has the need to market.

[icebraining]

Instead of looking from the point of view of business, why don't you try to look from the point of view of the consumer and see where it gets you?

That's the approach taken by the people behind Project VRM and Doc Searls' Intention economy[1].

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_economy

[chaz]

It has its merits, but can't completely supplant the value of advertising.

The biggest need is brand advertising. If Coca Cola reduced their brand advertising, their sales would go decline. Maybe I'm not imaginative, but I don't see an intention economy product for beverages, where the transaction cost is low and the switching cost is zero. People don't actively think, "what would I like to drink today?"

Another need is driving awareness. Movie releases depend upon heavy ad campaigns to ensure that people know when a movie is coming out. A different example is changing service providers, like a cell phone or car insurance. Sure you might one day decide to comparison shop, but Sprint's new unlimited plan, or Geico's "save 15% or more" campaign are effective at encouraging a switch when it wasn't within consideration.

[icebraining]

Movie releases depend upon heavy ad campaigns to ensure that people know when a movie is coming out.

Again, that's the seller's perspective. Under the buyer's, they could make their intention of knowing about the new releases if they wanted to. Better yet, they could announce what kind of films they want to know about, instead of being drowned in ads for Fast and Furious 348.

A different example is changing service providers, like a cell phone or car insurance. Sure you might one day decide to comparison shop, but Sprint's new unlimited plan, or Geico's "save 15% or more" campaign are effective at encouraging a switch when it wasn't within consideration.

You shouldn't need to comparison shop. The point of the Intention economy is that you announce to the market of your intentions and desires, and let it come to you with bids that fit what you need.

A generic "I want to know about offers that are strictly better than my current plans" would in fact be a decent intent to announce, but it should be at one's discretion and adjust itself to one's conditions (for example, no point in getting such information if you're locked in a contract).

[chaz]

To be clear, I think that IE can be a good complement to advertising in some industries and use cases, but I think it's a poor wholesale replacement.

[chaz]

To be clear, I think that IE can be a good complement to advertising in some industries and use cases, but I think it's a poor wholesale replacement.

I just think customers are bad at describing what they like/want. They need to see it. That's why product demos, movie trailers, and coupons are an effective call to action.

But no reason to believe me -- anyone's free to test with an IE-driven offer. No reason why it can't coexist with advertising.

(oops, replied to my own post instead of hitting edit)

[goldfeld]

I don't drink soft beverages whenever I can buy/order beer. And whenever I can order several types of beer, I think "what would I like to drink today?", so I don't see the problem. It's actually a pretty fun decision.

"Brand advertising" means making companies far more rich they than needed to be. I'd prefer an economy where companies actually rely on their product being good and people telling each other (see craft beers), and no, I don't think it's healthy for them to grow into mega-corps (which they wouldn't be able to do without ads.)

As for awareness and changing service providers, again, word of mouth and spontaneous sharing of links and stories on the internet.