[spitx]

This is Bill Clinton speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative - whose spouse, from all accounts, will most likely be running for the office of President in 2016 - on NSA Security Leaks and Snowden.

  "They (NSA) have prevented a very large number of harmful actions"

  "I don't see any alternative to trying to track all these groups 
  around the world who are trying to wreck the ordinary operations
  of life in America and probably kill a lot of people. I am not 
  persuaded that they (NSA) have done more harm than good"

In an increasingly uncertain world, the opinion among most American leaders and figureheads, on either side of the aisle, about the need for increased domestic and international surveillance, has already calcified.

For better or worse, they are overwhelmingly in favor of it. The debate being precipitated here and in mainstream media is largely symbolic.

It is time for privacy advocates to leave their dens and organize formally ( as in politically ) to advance their agendas. Washington only understands political clout whether it is a PAC or a lobby group.

Grassroots organizations will always go the way of Occupy Wall Street without formal leadership and a political consensus - lots of Zuccotti drama and nothing to show for it except for your obligatory iconic pepper spray photo.

You can mobilize politically in formal ways or bask in the warm glow of all the emotional outrage being voiced now and get your iconic photo spread.

Guess what?

The riots in Brazil have one too:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/a3b0bc19184f467fb7a70a2df6ee81a5/...

and nothing will come off those riots either. Wanna wager a candy bar?

Let's check back 3 months from now and I bet things will have gone back to where they were without any concrete action taken and the crowds going back to their usual quotidian lives.

Source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-JdjIxjeUs

[hga]

Clinton is the same guy who tried to press us into using key-escrowed encryption systems like the Clipper Chip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip) and his IRS was notorious for auditing anyone who committed personal, in your face lèse-majesté. You mention his wife, she of the "vast, right wing conspiracy"; these are not people who've ever been good on these subjects. For that matter, not that it wasn't largely bipartisan to begin with, but the reason the PATRIOT Act passed so quickly in such detail was it was a wish list left over from Clinton's administration, where it had been pushed without success.

[mpyne]

You may not like Clinton but tons of people do. Ignore that at the peril of the political goals you try to advance.

But either way, the point is that Clinton's opinion is going to be a decent bellwether as to the general opinion. I think spitx is right on target on how to advance change (or at least, what to avoid).

[hga]

Sure, "tons of people do", they're by definition part of the problem, since they explicitly or implicitly support these types of thuggishness, as long as it's directed at their enemies.

We on the other side mostly want to be left alone. Their side isn't willing to do that, which is why we're sliding towards a hot civil war.