[ben336]

Uh... you're not building very complex projects then :) Before you get defensive, consider something like Amazon.com as an easy extreme example. Or a banking website or non-trivial html5 based onlline game as less extreme ones. None of those are getting built in a day, and probably not without the use of libraries (though for something like amazon the libraries may be mostly proprietary/internal)

[eksith]

This shows you've never built a banking site.

All financial institutions will greatly benefit by sending less to the browser, not more. CAPTCHAs as we know are not foolproof, and should be limited. Instead, things like session/ip based hashing of field names, generating anti-csrf tokens and the like are trivial for the backend.

The vast majority of complexity in most projects is needlessly self-inflicted. DRY is dead, less-is-more is dead.

Let's Include All The Things is how Amazon became as pathetic as it is for a major commercial website.

[nudetayne]

I think you're getting defensive :). By saying I'm not building complex projects without any knowledge of what I create, you're trying to circumvent your own self-invented inadequacy without actually putting the pressure on yourself. Whether this was done subconsciously or not, I can't say.

I suppose it depends how you interpret the term web developer, since that's what simfoo was discussing. Myself, building browser-based games isn't web development, it's game development, which I feel is an entirely separate domain. Building a website, you really shouldn't need more than a day to put together the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. The front-end of the majority of most websites is very similar. Normally, this would indicate regular code reuse or warrant a framework, but as indicated in my original post, I haven't found any framework that actually significantly speeds up my development time.

[doktrin]

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples of your work. "Complex" means something different to everybody, so your claim is hard to place in context.

"Less than a day" for "complex" web sites using nothing but raw JavaScript and hand rolled HTML & CSS does sound unusual, both in terms of the result as well as the workflow. Given the verbosity of JS DOM manipulation, I can't really envision a particularly good reason to go down that route for anything but the most performance pegged web applications.

[TallboyOne]

Maybe if you're building a plumbing website for a client, most people here I would imagine build apps and complex works of art though, which definitely take longer than a day to put together.

These tools are crazy helpful in that regard.

[anon1385]

>Building a website, you really shouldn't need more than a day to put together the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5834227