[JonnieCache]

>But how is it any different than how men in groups behave towards one another?

Men do not typically fear sexual violence from each other.

Not that the men on that site were necessarily going to rape the engineer, but it was certainly orders of magnitude more likely than them raping each other.

For the record I understand your point and you might be right, she may well be being accepted, but I don't think it's really reasonable that she should just feel OK with it.

EDIT: and tbh in an ideal world men wouldn't have to face "hazing" (bullying) either. It's a pretty poor justification for women having to cope with a worse variant.

[Swizec]

> Men do not typically fear sexual violence from each other.

Women do not typically fear sexual violence from men either. Any woman I've ever asked "Do you really live in constant fear from rape as the internet activists suggest" has answered with "Not really, unless I'm going down a dark alley alone at night it doesn't really cross my mind"

But y'know, going down a dark alley alone at night, I'm pretty damn on guard myself and I'm a guy.

For the record: I have always felt americans (and anglosaxons in general) are orders of magnitude more afraid of the world than any other people I've ever spoken to. Men and women alike.

EDIT TO YOUR EDIT: > EDIT: and tbh in an ideal world men wouldn't have to face "hazing" (bullying) either. It's a pretty poor justification for women having to cope with a worse variant.

Ideal or not, hazing and bullying has worked for countless millennia to distinguish those you can rely on in a tight spot from those you cannot. The more dangerous the circumstances, the harder becoming accepted by a group seems to be. It's just how humans are.

[seanmcdirmid]

> For the record: I have always felt americans (and anglosaxons in general) are orders of magnitude more afraid of the world than any other people I've ever spoken to. Men and women alike.

You should qualify that by where you live. There are dangerous places and there are safer places. America is a bit more dangerous in many places than Europe.

I wouldn't let my wife walk alone at any time in India these days but I have no problem with her walking alone in Beijing in the middle of the night.

The world is vast.

[arethuza]

"America is a bit more dangerous in many places than Europe."

I'd be surprised if the most violent places and times in the US were really that different to the most violent places and times in Europe. However, what I suspect is different is where and when violence is likely to occur.

[JonnieCache]

>Ideal or not, hazing and bullying has worked for countless millennia to distinguish those you can rely on in a tight spot from those you cannot. The more dangerous the circumstances, the harder becoming accepted by a group seems to be. It's just how humans are.

You're an intelligent guy, surely you realise that this can be used to justify any number of barbaric, animalistic behaviours. I could make up a list of lurid things society should let me do to you and your family by this logic, but like I said, you seem clever enough to imagine them yourself.

As far as I'm concerned this kind of dawkins-style biological reductionism represents the abandonment of enlightenment thinking and I will not stand for it. I am not an ape, and neither are you.

[1123581321]

The Enlightenment era was arguably a high point of group-joining rituals.

[Swizec]

I know I know, bullying is not okay and I agree. But the fact of the matter is we as humans want people to "pay their dues". We are always going to find a way of ensuring that happens.

[jiggy2011]

One thing I do notice is that the sort of places that participate in more "Hazing" type behavior do often have a keener sense of loyalty and justice, perhaps because there is a stronger bond between people.

Rather than the typical corporate america style "rat race" where everyone is very polite but happy to stab each other in the back for their own aims.

[tallanvor]

Having been in a fraternity, I have unfortunately been through hazing processes on both sides. Although it was very light hazing, I'm still ashamed both of having allowed myself to be put through it as well as to have put others through it.

The people who are responsible for hazing? --The ones that go at it with the most gusto? I've learned that those are the ones you should trust the least.

There is absolutely nothing respectable about hazing.

[cafard]

"For the record: I have always felt americans (and anglosaxons in general) are orders of magnitude more afraid of the world than any other people I've ever spoken to. Men and women alike."

Would it be fair to rephrase this as "Americans and citizens of the UK and its former dominions have an expectation of public order that many other people do not, and are troubled when the expectation is not met."?

For the record, I (an American) have been held up at gunpoint. It did not keep me from being out and about late at night, though it made me more aware of what was around me. What should I have done to reduce my fear by an order of magnitude?

[carlob]

> Ideal or not, hazing and bullying has worked for countless millennia to distinguish those you can rely on in a tight spot from those you cannot.

So has being in constant danger of being eaten by a large carnivore, why don't you submit yourself to that then?