[just_hobbyst]

Bullshit. Finland doesn't have US bases on it's territory and all it's security is paid by the country itself. Plus, it always is under direct threat from Russia. Despite of that (or maybe because of that?) it does have a decent universal healthcare system.

Besides, having US base on your territory is not a guaranty of security - South Vietnam had a lot of them and it didn't help them.

[LekkoscPiwa]

Yeah, that's why socialism is exported by Russia. You see: normally people would vote for security/military spending and not social care. But that's exactly what Russians, i.e. KGB do. They export socialism to the elites of countries they want to weaken.

If you study Russian expansionism since its inception hundreds of years ago, their strategy has always been the same. Russia strategy for centuries has been always the same: start weakening countries you want to invade decades before military action by the means of exporting intellectual fashions that will destroy country's defense system. They use spies and agents heavily for that. Polish kings used to be Russian agents way before Russia invaded Poland. Isn't that genius? Sponsor some crazy parties that want to cut military spending or some other that will introduce social chaos and not talk about real issues (i.e. "rights" of different groups of people, introduce heavy political correctness to avoid important topics), all the stuff to rotten country from inside first. In XX/XXI century this means helping create in targeted country via KGB socialistic elites, socialistic media, education creating weak confused people. So they will never vote for parties advocating strong military and patriotism.

So, this much better for Russia, this much worse for Finland. First thing KGB does is to make sure you (as a country) loose your common sense. Military spending when neighboring Russia? What for, right? No, we'll spend it all on help for the poor. Well, what I can say: Good Luck!

BTW: http://www.therightsphere.com/2013/04/putins-russia-to-make-...

[just_hobbyst]

Man, you really are confused! If a country is serious about national defence then it really needs universal health care, because it needs lots of healthy soldiers. Soviet Russia did a lot to make sure there was at least basic medical care available to everyone for exactly this reason - they needed millions of soldiers! Finland is doing the right thing when it takes care for it's citizens.

Also, news flash for you: socialism in Russia ended some 20 years ago. Now they have a pretty ruthless form of capitalism in there.

When I read what you have to say about Poland I start to think you are from some kind of alternative universe. It's just bizarre.

[berntb]

I'd guess the Polish rant is based on that Soviet really did support the anti-nuclear weapon movement, and so on.

Seing conspiracy theories like those, I am strengthened in the belief that the US extreme left and right are equally crazy. In Europe we mostly see the Chomsky brigade, some variation would make it less irritating.

[arethuza]

That rant also ignores the fact that after the 1930s (and particularly after the Spanish Civil War) it was clear that the Soviets regarded any "socialists" who weren't under their direct control as more of a threat than their apparent enemies. Most socialists in Western Europe (e.g. the UK Labour Party) were more afraid of the Soviets than those on the political right.

[berntb]

In e.g. Sweden, the communists stooped being Stalinists when Moscow told them that Stalin was bad... They did start to critizise the Eastern block dictators early... about 1990!

(There were also anarchists etc, but in general the non-communist extreme left-wingers were few before ~1968, when they got more numerous and varied).

Also, I remember reading surprise after 1989 on how much control Soviet had over the West European communist parties. E.g. that the Italian communist party had such an accomodating attitude by order (Soviet wanted to get a de facto split in Western/Eastern Europe.)

[arethuza]

I don't know about anywhere else but in the UK there was a very large "socialist" party in Labour and tiny "communist" parties that never really had much power.

[LekkoscPiwa]

so, watching a lot of KGB-TV, ops sorry RussiaTV lately? I know plenty of Americans watch only this for news.

Don't tell me it's not genius, please. Russia banned recently all outside world financed NWOs from their country, but they air their propaganda in the US day and night. You don't see that? First divide the country. Find original dividing factor. Whatever it is as long as ti exists. I.e. Tea Party in the US which in fact has been a genuine effort to make the Republic better. Then invest millions, hundreds of millions in them. In their NWOs, show them on your TV, support their papers, bloggers, activists. See how much trouble you're creating in the country without even firing a single bullet? They can and do pull it off all the time.

You think Finland is any different? The whole of Russia belongs to KGB and is governed by it. And don't take my word for this, these are almost exact words of the US Ambassador in Moscow that leaked via wikileaks.

Western Europeans are somehow always so naive in the face of threat. Whether it was Hitler or Stalin, they voted, they believed in it. Stop being so blatantly naive, ok?