[iSnow]

Point is, the eye is a (relatively) straight-forward vision machine. The lens is not the right shape? Wear glasses and the system enters an improved stable state.

The brain a continously changing feedback machine. It changes its very physical architecture by what you hear, see and think. Trying to correct it via lobotomy or medication has not really worked out that great and there is reason to suspect it will not work out great in the future.

Ironically, substances that indeed improve mood and well-being in depressed people (especially MDMA, but also LSD, Psilocybin, Heroin ) are dangerous, addictive and verboten. They essentially brute force some of the subsystems in the brain (like pleasure/reward) and I believe every substance that does this is going to be addictive.

[seunosewa]

> substances that indeed improve mood and well-being in depressed people (especially MDMA, but also LSD, Psilocybin, Heroin) ... I believe every substance that does this is going to be addictive.

Dude, you're misinforming people. There are indeed substances that help depressed people. They are called anti-depressants. The illegal drugs you listed above are not anti-depressants, and therefore you have no rational reason to believe that anti-depressants must have similar properties. Real anti-depressants are generally neither dangerous nor addictive. Please don't misinform people about this.

[iSnow]

Dude, antidepressants do absolutely nothing for a lot of depressed people.

- http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/18/new-research-on-the-an...

Concerning XTC, LSD and Psilocybin: they are surely not the silver bullet, but could be valuable for treatment. Maybe you'd like to fact up:

- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/9565026/Can-LSD-cure-depr...

- http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/apr/07/magic-mushroom...

Had you read what I wrote, you would not claim that I implied current antidepressants are dangerous nor addictive. They are, however, suspected of facilitating suicidal thoughts in adolescents, so I would not exactly call them harmless

- http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-m...

[peterwwillis]

"Real" anti-depressants have been found to cause suicide, and are part of why the suicide rate has been increasing in recent years. There are thousands of articles about this, starting over 10 years ago.

However, it's obvious neither of you are qualified to talk about addiction, so both of you should either provide sources or shut up about it.

Some of these articles talk about the potential suicide risk created by antidepressants:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/18/national/18depress.html?_r...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/antidepressan...

These articles talk about what we know about antidepressants and their risks:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/medications_depression.htm

http://www.drugwatch.com/ssri/suicide/

This person rails against the first few articles, but also acknowledges the risks:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2013/01/18/antidepr...

Some Google Scholar searches:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=antidepressant+cause+su...

[LaGrange]

What causes suicide is that at the point where depression lifts a bit, you suddenly are able to take action, but not necessarily any happier. In fact, did you not that part about "hate" in the OP? That's when people kill themselves. It happens with medication, it happens with CBT, it is an essential inherent risk of depression therapy — the first few months are dangerous.

[peterwwillis]

I mostly caught the part where the guy I replied to was making ridiculous statements about both antidepressants and how there is somehow a "logic" which dictates that illegal substances can't treat depression.

[seunosewa]

What I said was that it is completely illogical to say that because you think heroin can fight depression and its also addictive and destructive, that therefore real anti-depressants must also be addictive and destructive. You cannot infer the properties of anti-depressants from the properties of a bunch of illegal drugs that you (a lay person) consider to have anti-depressant properties.

[LaGrange]

Actually, while not really addictive, virtually all anti-depressant/anti-anxiety drugs turned out to be habit forming, to pharma corps dismay and nobodies surprise.

[casiotone]

There have been various trials with MDMA/LSD showing efficacy in treating some mental disorders. And they are probably even more effective than SSRIs, seeing as how we don't even know how or why SSRIs seem to work, if they even do. (But, of course, don't self-medicate, talk to your doctor.)

SSRIs are not strictly addictive but they do cause very unpleasant withdrawal effects as your brain gets used to a 'normal' level of serotonin again.

[mikecane]

>>>The brain a continously changing feedback machine. It changes its very physical architecture by what you hear, see and think.

Study shows that adventure shapes the individual http://www.france24.com/en/20130509-study-shows-adventure-sh...

It made me think of that line in the newest series of Doctor Who that made me laugh out loud: "New things. I like new things."

[eli_gottlieb]

Holy God. Life really is an RPG!

[mikecane]

Well, except you really have to be outside to do it.

[eli_gottlieb]

Sure, but I do that every day. For a usual total of an hour or two, when you put errands and lunch together with walking to and from work!

Haaaaaa "no life in Technion". Oh well, getting and being here is an adventure in itself, and we do get to go on trips for the holidays.

May Day last week was a lot of fun.

[mikecane]

>>>For a usual total of an hour or two, when you put errands and lunch together with walking to and from work!

But it's the randomness that creates growth. You can't expect the unexpected.