[mtrimpe]

I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves...

From what I can tell Adria was a woman who misjudged the level of public support for her 'cause' and what was appropriate in 'defending it.' She crossed a line she didn't expect to be there and when she did, the support she thought would be there evaporated before her eyes and she was very publicly thrown to the lions.

Yes, she may not have been the smartest cookie for not having that figured out but many men have crossed a similar invisible line known as sexual harassment, yet when was the last time you saw a man's career publicly shot to pieces because they 'misread the signals?'

[katherineparker]

I'm not trying to demonize her. People harassing her online are inappropriate and should apologize as well (but probably won't because they're anonymous cowards). The men were technically violating the conference's code of conduct and have already apologized. It's her turn now, that's all I'm saying.

edit: Sorry, I did not understand your post (I think you may have edited it later?). I'm not hard on myself. Not sure where you gathered that from. I just don't like someone representing a group I'm a part of if they are going to fuck up its reputation by acting reckless.

[mtrimpe]

I was responding to ahoyhere with my comment and I edited it after I realised it she is also a woman in tech.

I guess I really wish that the 'women in tech' had responded more along the lines of "Yes she's acting like a childish <expletive of choice> and we don't like it either, but don't you dare treat her like this.'

P.S. This is from a queer in tech who was once similarly cast to the lions for complaining (in private ;) about management calling LGBT co-workers faggots, so that might have polarised me a bit on issues like these.

[katherineparker]

I agree with what you're saying and also sorry for butting in :P (I was a bit confused). Adria definitely doesn't deserve what is happening to her. I think the reason a lot of people lack sympathy is because her situation is like her being bullied for being a bully. Bullying is wrong no matter what (or who it's done to) and people need to remember that.

[ahoyhere]

> I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves...

I'm not hard on myself at all.

Frankly, I think I'm quite gentle on a person who crowed about her heroism, her impact on the ages, her contribution to "the great fight", of attacking a couple of blameless strangers, posting their photos online without their permission, who used her ability to stop a conversation entirely to get others kicked out of a conference and to silence them… and who did it all because the other people were of a different gender. Those are the actions of a bully.

I don't have to sympathize with somebody's actions because they share my chromosomes.

I am not a bully. I don't defend bullies. I don't care what they've got in their pants. Bullies are bullies and they come in every shape and form.

I don't have to use the word "we" to include myself as if I belong with people I don't know, have never met, have nothing in common with, disagree violently with, etc.

I don't have to make a statement "as a woman in tech" that death threats are wrong. (Do you feel the need to make a statement against child abuse every time somebody talks about a "gay" Catholic priest molesting a choir boy? No? Probably because it goes without saying, right, and has absolutely nothing to do with you to begin with?)

BTW - actually calling people "faggots" is not even in the same city, much less ballpark, as a couple of strangers behind you giggling over a "dongle" joke to themselves, that was not directed at you, did not involve you, and did not refer to anyone in the audience or on the stage. "Dongle" is not a slur, it's not a title, it's not a word of oppression, and guess what, it's a silly joke on the level of a 3rd grader going "YOU SAID 'IT'!!" -- totally harmless.

Bullies who glory in their bullying with the expectation that their powerful in-group will congratulate them, on the other hand? That's exactly like people who call other people faggots.

[mtrimpe]

> I don't have to sympathize with somebody's actions because they share my chromosomes.

I didn't at all mean to imply that you should have. I only hesitantly used 'women in tech' here because I was talking about my own wish for one of my own abstractions.

> Bullies who glory in their bullying with the expectation that their powerful in-group will congratulate them, on the other hand? That's exactly like people who call other people faggots.

You might be right. I guess I can't judge the situation nor the cultural differences accurately enough to determine which side is the evil-doer here.

Let's just that if she really did honestly believe she was (selflessly) fighting the good cause, I can relate quite well to what she must be going through right now.

[ahoyhere]

> Let's just that if she really did honestly believe she was (selflessly) fighting the good cause, I can relate quite well to what she must be going through right now.

I think you're underrating yourself and overrating her. Many people claim to be "fighting the good fight" and use that to do awful things. A lot of them are "fighting against the good fight" against gay civil rights. Do you sympathize with them too? (I'd understand if you said yes, but most people don't extend their sympathies that far.) Just think about it. Feelings aren't truth. (And statements aren't necessarily even truth about feelings.)

[ahoyhere]

> yet when was the last time you saw a man's career publicly shot to pieces because they 'misread the signals?'

How about the guy who got fired for making a "big dongle" joke to his buddy within Aria Richards' ear shot? She could have turned around and simply asked them to stop, like an adult, if a 3rd grade "sex" word really bothered her so much.

Instead, she smiled at them while she took their photos, posted them on Twitter, exorciated them, publicly demanded the conference kick them out, and at least one of them was fired afterwards.

I can't imagine firing somebody for laughing at the word "dongle," so one can only assume it was because of the attention.

Don't underestimate her intelligence. She is a smart cookie. She's also a sanctimonious asshole. Women can be those too, you know.

The outrage over her actions isn't because she "misjudged the level of support" but because those actions were wrong, no matter who you are. It was very public because everything she chose to do was very public. If she had asked the people behind her not to say the word 'dongle,' it would have ended there. If she had gone to a conference organizer in person instead of tweeting about it publicly in a tweet designed to be seen by everyone, and saying "You need to remove these people," it would have ended there. If she hadn't written a blog post calling herself a hero, and painting a maudlin scene with an adorable little girl in a photograph on stage blah blah blah, it still probably would have ended there.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[mtrimpe]

I'd argue with the PlayHaven guy's career being publicly shot to pieces, since hardly anyone even knows who he is and I doubt he's going to have a ton of trouble resuming his career in tech.

> Don't underestimate her intelligence. She is a smart cookie. She's also a sanctimonious asshole.

> Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I can't comment on that since I don't personally know her, buy if you do I can imagine reasons for your resentment.

Still, most people don't know her personally and judging the story at face value she could just as well have been dense yet sincere rather than devious and sanctimonious.