[trustfundbaby]

This really is a no brainer, if you have the best and brightest coming here to work, then its only going to make everybody in the industry better as everybody has to raise their game to compete, as long as these workers don't flood the market (which the h1-b quota does a good job of keeping in check)

The problem is with some of the foibles of the h1-b visa. H1-b workers cannot compete in the job market the way an American worker can, because to get the h1-b the hiring company has to fork over almost $5k to the govt, to transfer to a new job, the hiring company has to pay $3k (I think), every 3 years the hiring company has to pay another $1k to renew the visa, and at the end of 6 years the hiring company has to start a green card application which costs a lot of time, money and resources IN ADDITION to the renewal fee (again).

Because of that, the hiring company wields extra-ordinary power over the h1-b worker which means that h1-b workers can be used to artificially depress wages.

The fix for this isn't all that complex. keep the h1-b as it is (complete with the yearly quota, which should be adjusted according to demand), and give a green card to the worker AUTOMATICALLY after 2 years, so that they're free do as they please in the market and see what happens.

Engineers know what they should be making and if anyone tries to underpay their workers, they'll have to contend with the fact that they'll be gone in 2 years, at which point they have to seriously ponder if it wouldn't be cheaper to actually train/hire an American to do the job. This would stem the problem of bodyshops bringing in immigrants and underpaying them for donkey years while profitting richly off their labor, and companies who'd apply for h1-b workers would actually need them and pay them fairly.

[pbiggar]

> The problem is with some of the foibles of the h1-b visa.

H1B worker here. I think what you describe is actually completely offset by the strong demand for engineers. The cost of a H1B, which is as you say $5K or so (though its the same to transfer), is tiny in comparison to salaries, and also relative to recruiter fees (which can often be $30K). The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company.

There is really no power over the H1B at the moment. There was during the bust following the dot com boom, and you'll always find unscrupulous employers, but I have literally zero worries about this. One employer did try to change the deal for me, but it took me literally 5 days to find a new job. In an economy like this, there is no danger.

However, that's not to say your fix wouldn't be welcome (esp if a bust comes around again). I don't see it happening though, given both the aims of the H1B and the green card programs.

A final correction: you're not allowed contract out H1B workers. That's not to say it doesn't happen, and there is one big company with a reputation for this (infosys? I dont remember), but your final line is hyperbole.

[trustfundbaby]

> The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company

That was not my point though ... I was trying to say that while all this is being done for the worker, that worker is beholden to the company doing all this on their behalf. Which allows the company take liberties with their wages that they could never even dream off with an American.

> There is really no power over the H1B at the moment

I agree, up to a point. At your 6 year mark, where the green card has to be filed for you to stay in the country. You are vulnerable, as it essentially makes it impossible for you to move for almost a year, getting canned at that point can also cause you untold grief. I also base this sentiment on some of the horror stories I've heard from h1-b workers at some of the body shops around the country.

> but your final line is hyperbole Again, we disagree. If I can hire a guy for $60k on the h1-b when the going rate is $90k, guess who's winning? Yes I know there is a concept of a prevailing wage, used in the filing, but those rates are ridiculously low.

[pbiggar]

> I was trying to say that while all this is being done for the worker, that worker is beholden to the company doing all this on their behalf.

Not at all, because there are thousands of other companies will to do this too. Its a sellers market, and engineers can literally get a job with a week's notice (plus maybe 2 weeks to get the visa sorted out).

> At your 6 year mark, where the green card has to be filed for you to stay in the country.

Green cards take time and should be planned years in advance. Don't work a H1B job without negotiating Green Cards.

I agree there is a time where you are unable to move during this time. I don't believe that good companies are going to mistreat their employees during this time. Similarly with your last point, the prevailing wage is irrelevant because there is high competition.

> horror stories I've heard from h1-b workers at some of the body shops

I think we disagree because we're coming from different perspectives. I think you're looking at the body shops (which account for half of the H1Bs) and where everyone has heard horror stories. Those H1B employees might believe they are beholden and stuck, but the truth is they are not. Move out of New Jersey, come to SF and you'll find the streets paved with great working conditions and employers who pay and treat you right.

[rdouble]

Most "body shop" employees are doing stuff that is irrelevant to employment at innovative Silicon Valley companies.

[ktsmith]

I'd really like to see it changed so that consultancies are not eligible for H-1B visa application. This would eliminate the body shops pretty quickly.

[ktsmith]

> You are vulnerable, as it essentially makes it impossible for you to move for almost a year

180 days post application not a year.. This is well known and established, anyone applying for permanent residency should be well aware of this and should apply as soon as acceptable if they wish to stay in the US long term.