[pbateman]

I see a few problems with this:

* The website doesn't have critical mass or any special hooks (like pg's essays and pg himself, for instance) to help build it

* I'm not "applying" to post on a website

* Costing people karma is going to drive everything towards a hive mind as soon as possible; if you're going to lose karma by posting you're going to try to make sure that you'll earn that karma back. People are also not going to burn karma making civil responses, everything will become a political performance.

[tptacek]

I'm with you, and would be happy to post a bet (proceeds to Watsi!) that none of these invite-only HN clones are going to succeed long term.

[angersock]

What was it Grouch Marx said? "I don't want to belong to any club that would accept people like me as a member"?

Edit: Updated caps is from telegram, apparently.

Edit 2: Undid caps--sorry everyone. can't take it.

[thaumaturgy]

So, what you're saying is that HN should ban your account?

All snark aside, I hope you can see the irony of your comment.

[tptacek]

I am not seeing the irony. HN isn't an invite-only site; it's not a club at all. That's the point.

[thaumaturgy]

HN has all the properties of a club, it's just very cheap to get in. It's certainly possible to be kicked out of the club (just ask LoseThos/SparrowOS); so, since HN continues to accept angersock as a member, why is he still here?

[tptacek]

Terry Davis is schizophrenic and his HN accounts feed random noise into threads; at times, the noise is more than just disruptive. He hasn't been "kicked off" of HN. If he created an account tomorrow and used it to post coherently, or even just in a markedly different way than he uses the site today, that account would not get banned.

The point 'angersock and I are both making is that it's not that HN is a different kind of club or a better club. It's the fact that it's not a club that makes it relevant. Overtly clubby alternative sites (with invite-only participation) are destined to fail, for reasons both obvious and subtle.

You say HN has all the properties of a club. But it doesn't:

* There's no shared purpose or interest, unless you count typing words into text boxes as that.

* There's no membership.

* There's no bar to entry.

* Half the site's participants are anonymous; for all I know, you and "angersock" are the same person.

[angersock]

Personally, I stay for the drinks and ambiance. :)

More seriously: tptacek hit it on the head. This isn't an invite-only club where I was required to apply. This is a community where you may be banned for bad behavior (as I am acutely aware), but otherwise you are somewhat free to exist as an independent vendor in the marketplace of ideas.

An online community which is exclusive enough that I need apply is probably not going to line up nicely with my preferences or with (I suggest) the idea of offering free debate and discussion.

This is especially true given their karma model, which as others here have pointed out somewhat encourages hivemind attenuation especially since it is annoying to get into and join.

[thaumaturgy]

> The website doesn't have critical mass or any special hooks (like pg's essays and pg himself, for instance) to help build it

I think this is the only real problem with the site, really. It's going to need some kind of attractor to make people want to be there. (And honestly, I'm hoping it finds one.)

> I'm not "applying" to post on a website

Why not?

> Costing people karma is going to drive everything towards a hive mind as soon as possible...

"Hive mind" is a label that people seem to be applying to, "opinions I don't like". I can't think of a reason why this system would penalize different opinions, so long as they were thoughtful presented well. It would however penalize stupid ones, which would be just fine.

I hope it draws enough traffic to become a useful experiment. I think it's got some good ideas.

[protomyth]

Your stupid opinion is seen as thoughtful by me or the other way around. Different is often seen as stupid by those invested in the difference.

[thaumaturgy]

lol