[kjackson2012]

I have Canadian friends, and although they would do anything to preserve their health care, they complain about how long it takes them to make appointments for specialists, tests, etc. I live in the Bay Area, and I have Kaiser HMO, and I love them. They seem vastly superior to Canadian health care in every respect. Even in cost, my friends in Toronto have to pay $100/month each as a Health Tax.

Case in point, I got an endoscopy scheduled in 9 days. My friend told me that the average wait time in Canada for an endoscopy is 9 months. I had an MRI scheduled within 1 day. My friend's wife, who was suffering from gallstones, waited 4 months for her MRI. I just made an appointment to see a GI specialist, and it took 1 day. My friend who is a pharmacist for Shoppers Drug Mart in Toronto told me she was amazed at how quick that was.

[tptacek]

Kaiser is great unless/until they refuse to cover you because your medical history includes one of hundreds of disqualifying conditions, or they decide to renege on their coverage using contract fine print and creative (re)interpretation of your medical history.

In other words, Kaiser is great if a big company that employs you is making sure you're covered.

My point is that Kaiser vs. Health Canada isn't an apples/apples comparison.

[OldSchool]

Reminds me of the ONE truly profitable piece of legal advice I've ever received from a lawyer: Having an insurance policy really only guarantees you the right to sue your insurance company if they refuse to pay a claim. He said this as we walked outdoors in a large American city and then pointed out the tallest building on the skyline - an insurance company HQ. This wasn't health insurance but the point is the same.

[jimbokun]

Isn't that true of any contract?

[OldSchool]

True, but the insurance industry is one where profits come specifically from not delivering anything.

[mhurron]

> My friend told me that the average wait time in Canada for an endoscopy is 9 months

Wait times for specialist visits that are not life threatening are just as long in the US as in Canada.

There is a persistent myth in Canada among people who have never had to get in depth medical care in Canada and the US that the Canadian system makes you wait until you are dying but in the US you just wave some bills and you see the specialist that day.

(US) Mother-in-Law has to schedule months (4-6) in advance for colon cancer screening because they find polyps every time, not just because of age. Cost - IIRC ~$50 with insurance.

(Canada) Father complained about shortness of breath walking to work (Wednesday), saw his doctor (Thursday), was checked in to the hospital that day, had a angioplasty. (Saturday). Why? Was life threatening. Cost - $150.

I'll take Canadian health care over the US squeeze for money every time.

[specialist]

Geography is also a factor. In both US and Canada.

In the US jurisdiction is a factor, with local legislators enabling fruitcake care providers and pharmacists to impose their neolithic values onto their patients.

The only measure I care about is cost per capita and life expectancy.

Canada is cheaper and their people live longer. That's not an accident.

[MichaelSalib]

There are two different issues here: how to structure your healthcare system and how much of society's resources to devote to it. Canada (and even more so the UK) have a nationalized healthcare system AND they've decided to spend very little money on it. Both countries spend substantially less on healthcare than the US or other advanced economies with similar healthcare systems. As a result, they have long lines sometimes. But that's a separate decision.

[richcollins]

average wait time in Canada for an endoscopy is 9 months

Sounds like a great way to die from esophageal cancer.

[jacoblyles]

It is! The US system, for all its faults, has a high cancer survival rate.

[colmvp]

FWIW, I got my MRI done in Toronto in less than a few days.

I also got my specific medication for free. In the U.S. without insurance it would've cost me over $75k. Thankfully I had insurance.

Healthcare in the U.S. seems amazing except when you aren't fortunate enough to have a great health insurance.

[nollidge]

Why are you bringing wait times to an outcomes party?