[DisposableMike]

I'm pretty sure that it's your fault as a reader to assume that the models being metaphorically referred to are human females. That's only one of many possibilities, but unfortunately, you not only leapt to that conclusion, but decided that women's body issues needs a white knight on HN.

[philsnow]

Ask a random sample of engineers what "chubby models" refers to, and if less than half think of fashion models, I'll be greatly surprised. IMHO it's the most sensible semantic binding.

As for your characterization of dccoolgai's actions as being a "white knight": take your polarizing term back to reddit. Inaction in the face of speech that marginalizes a certain group only furthers that marginalization.

Also, dccoolgai, why did you leap directly to women's body issues? There are make models with body issues as well.

[dccoolgai]

philsnow – thanks for at least couching your response in a framework that is not patently absurd. 4 for you, philsnow.

Allow me to respond to various issues with my initial call of “Party Foul” en masse:

The thing says “chubby” models on a “diet”. I know that could refer to males or females, but this article was not written in a bubble – it was written by a thought leader in a male-dominated industry using a tongue-in-cheek title clearly meant to attract attention and elicit a chortle by explicitly evoking body issues (and don’t give me “Rails is fat models and skinny controllers” – that stops holding water when you change the terms to “chubby” and “diet”)(And please don’t try to argue that society holds body issues over men as much as it does women – that sentiment is so patently absurd that it’s not even worth parsing.). There is no “conclusion” to leap to – it is laid out prima facie. I’m not saying this applies only to women, I’m just saying that society tortures women a lot more with body issues than it does men and invoking those issues for the sake of a “clever pun” is not worth it for several reasons, including but not limited to: 1. Reinforcing the perception that tech is a frat house. 2. Reinforcing the reality that tech is a frat house.

I love DHH and everything he has contributed to technology.

Nevertheless:

After further review, the call on the field of “Party Foul” stands. 15 yard penalty – still third down.

Doesn’t make DHH a bad guy. I know a lot women who are involved in tech specifically because of Ruby/Rails – DHH’s net effect on making technology a comfortable and inviting field for women to specialize in is vastly positive, IMHO. I don’t think he intended anything negative with either his post or its title. I’m just saying the pun he picked to put in the title of his post sucks. That’s it. For those of you whose knee-jerk response to this is “lighten up”: I respond in kind. I’m just calling a “Party Foul”, not trying to pillory your gods. Lord knows, I probably have and will say/write things that are much more insensitive than this… I just hope that when I do, someone will call me out for it in a thoughtful, non-reactionary way.

Because I don’t want to lose that much more HN karma over this (I don’t believe in this enough to sacrifice 50 points criticizing everyone’s idol.), this will be the last comment I make.

[philsnow]

A crucial detail that I left out because I typed my above reply on a mobile device, is: note that I first talked about a random sample of _engineers_.

There are tons of people who work with engineers but who are not themselves engineers. These people will be even less likely to think "MVC models" and more likely to think "fashion model".

Another group is the general public or people choosing a college major or vocation. These people have never been exposed to MVC, so they will assume you're talking about "fashion models" with 100% certainty.

These last two groups are exactly the people who you don't (or shouldn't) want to feel automatically excluded.

You may as well paint a picture of the entire "tech industry" with a giant "NO FATTIES" sign.

[DisposableMike]

You cannot seriously be inferring that women in technology deserve such light treatment that an extremely light pun made via a framework reference is the same as painting the entire tech industry as having a "NO FATTIES" attitude.

The tech industry was borne of "geeks" and "nerds" and other such social outcasts. These groups of people were and are still being maligned as "virgins" and "having no friends" and "living in their mom's basement", etc. These tropes are only the more popular the larger and more dense the Internet becomes. But where is the outrage for the maltreatment of these individuals, who make up a now large segment of society (with the growth of the technology sector)?

Nobody cares, because you either identify positively with that characterization (I'm a real geek!), or there is such cultural inertia that the phrases have become no longer harmful (read: the euphemism treadmill).

Regardless, it's BS to suddenly jump to the aid of an extremely narrow segment of society because of a simple pun. I mean, honestly, despite our society having a real problem with female body issues, does anyone really feel badly for female fashion models? And can you demonstrate a similar defense for another segment of society that you actually identify with and feel needs protection? Because if you can't, then (like the phrase or not), you're just being a white knight because it makes you feel good about yourself.

[ahelwer]

Stop stripping out context. Stop simplifying. Stop reducing. The title, in and of itself, is not indicative of the entire industry having an attitude. When you tie it in with many other things, you begin to see the problem. I'm sure you'll deny there is one though, because it doesn't affect you.

Your bizarre rant about geeks is a problem which does not exist outside of high school and some corners of the internet inhabited by people still in high school. These geeks are not an oppressed class. At all.

I know fashion models. They have problems just like everyone else. Also, stop calling women females. It's really creepy.

You have some serious issues with your worldview.

[ahelwer]

White knight? You mean be a decent human being?

We aren't spherical chickens in a vacuum here. Don't play dumb. You know the implications of the title. Do you realize how ridiculous "perhaps YOU are the sexist for noticing sexism!" is?