[tombert]

One time when I was in one of these calls. It was pretty obvious it was coming, the company wasn't doing great and there were plenty of whispers.

Still, I was pretty upset I was laid off, because it's just not a fun feeling. After the HR person explained the severance and COBRA stuff, I said something to the CTO like "I wish you all the best in trying to save this company, and for the sake of this conversation, let's just pretend I'm not lying". Then I hung up.

I wish I could feel guilty over that, but ultimately they were cutting off my livelihood, they can deal with momentary hurt feelings.

[grahamburger]

Ha, that's a good one. At a job 10 years ago or so I had a similar premonition of upcoming layoffs—lots of closed door meetings between the execs, travel and expansion plans getting cancelled, etc. One day my immediate boss, who I genuinely like, walked into my office, closed the door, and told me he was gonna have to lay me off in two weeks. He said if I would handle x,y,z tasks (a few days of work) I could just stop showing up until the layoff day and he'd make sure I got a good severance. Listen, I appreciated this! it still sucked, but he wasn't supposed to tell me at all.

Anyway, a few weeks after the axe dropped, I went to an industry conference (putting out the feelers for a new job, etc) and during the keynote he walked in. I waved, and he came and sat at the table with me. After the speech, we were chatting with the others around the table, and someone asked where I worked. I said something like "well, I'm between jobs. This guy just fired me <thumb jerk towards him>." They laughed, and he squirmed in his chair! But I didn't let him squirm too long, it really wasn't his fault.

[aftbit]

I wish this were more common. For some reason, employees are expected to give employers two weeks or more of notice when they quit, while employers are expected to terminate employees with 0 seconds of notice.

[rcxdude]

Well, when there are formal notice periods, you do generally get paid for the notice period, even if you're not working it.

[tombert]

I think there's a fear from the employers that the terminated employees will do something to fuck over the company because they're bitter, either by copying and distributing proprietary stuff, or even just posting a message shit-talking the leadership. Everyone knows that being fired or laid off sucks and passions can run high, so there is a perceived incentive that bitter employees will cause some damage.

I honestly don't think most people would do that, but I think there's a worry that "one bad actor is enough". Consequently, when I've been laid off in the past, usually my access to the computer (Slack, company email, and the computer itself) is cut off about a minute after I get the bad news.

That said, usually I get severance when I've been laid off, which is admittedly a small consolation, but a consolation all the same.

[tombert]

When I've been laid off, I generally don't hold any grudges at the business people. These things happen, and I know business decisions aren't always easy or going to make everyone happy.

That said, I already didn't like the CTO here, regardless of the layoffs. I kind of thought he was a blowhard who didn't really understand what he was talking about most of the time. I had no desire to be his friend.

[Waterluvian]

It's their job to endure the discomfort of having to do the job they're paid to do. It's not your job to make it comfortable for them. That's not to say that there aren't personal or professional consequences for how you conduct yourself. Burning bridges and all that. But I feel that's completely up to you.

[outworlder]

As a rule, you shouldn't burn bridges.

But in some occasional cases, the bridges you burn light up the way forward.

[roughly]

And sometimes you burn a bridge to keep anything from following you across it. At a prior job, I wanted that door good and shut after I left.

[marcosdumay]

It takes a special kind of company for counting it as a burnt bridge for somebody that said "I hope you all fail" and gone away after being fired.

[pc86]

Well the company is an inanimate object and doesn't think anything about anything.

The person you are saying that to, who almost certainly didn't make the decision that you should be laid off, may rightfully view it as someone unable to control their emotions in a difficult moment. This is completely understandable. It's also completely understandable to remember that, and maybe that person is reviewing resumes in the future and doesn't want to work with you because of a brief outburst which does nothing to change anything?

[tombert]

In this particular case I actually did have confirmation that this was the CTO's decision.

I hardly think that making a single passive aggressive dig is "being unable to control my emotions" though. It's a smartass comment that admittedly was intended to maybe hurt his feelings, but it's not like I screamed at anyone or went on some loud rant.

[xp84]

The "company" isn't the one considering it that. After all, it'll probably fail and you almost certainly won't work there. The company is just a paper entity that doesn't mean anything. But the people you say it to might think it was pissy.

Participating in the upside of working in the private sector and, more broadly, in any capitalist system, means also participating in the downside risk. Sometimes you'll be out. Don't take it personally, and do your best to jump ship at the point when you think that some bozo is steering the company toward ruin.

[huebnerob]

It takes a very normal kind of company to judge you for how well you fit into the narrow box they’ve built for ‘employee’ that has no room for emotion or consideration of the person. In fact, I don’t know if there’s another kind of company.

[throwaway1492]

I dodged layoffs for 20 years, then got caught about 2024. Kinda sucked because I was over employed and had quit my other two jobs to focus on that one because it was the highest paying. Karma is real! I just said “VIP and manager, I appreciate my time here and so long”. They replied graciously clearly appreciating me taking the high road. Felt like I got some karma back in that situation. Been working one job since.

[01284a7e]

You should have been straightforward and told them to go fuck themselves. Laying people off by a brief call is for cowards.

[pc86]

Is a long one better?

Most programming jobs are remote. What's the alternative, exactly?

[snazz]

> Most programming jobs are remote.

Where is this true?

[seattle_spring]

> Most programming jobs are remote. What's the alternative, exactly?

Maybe in 2021...

[switchbak]

Why though - seriously, what need are you bringing by doing that? What good could come of that besides a little catharsis?

These middle managers are robots in an organization. You knew they saw you as "resources", now they can't afford you and have to put you back in the pool. So be it.

If they'd been shitty about it, sure. But if you got paid for your time - fair trade.

[tombert]

I mean I was already working remote since they were based in a different state.

[inigyou]

I don't think you hurt their feelings. I don't think you can have feelings and get into any management position.

[DiggyJohnson]

My condolences for whatever career path led you to actually believe that