[suddenlybananas]

>Do readers prefer archaic language?

>Emily Wilson argues that readers may mistake archaic language for authority or authenticity [..] Among translations published since 1960, it nearly disappears. Readers were not simply choosing the oldest-sounding English.

I don't think this necessarily follows, a translation written in 1960 can have a more contemporary English than one written in 1980.

That being said, I don't really understand why Wilson argues against an archaizing register---the poems themselves were archaizing. Homer or whatever bards actually composed it were writing about something that allegedly happened hundreds of years earlier and using language/style that was itself archaic at the time.

[KaiserPro]

ITs a hard call.

I think the archaic language is both an appeal and a barrier. The thing that got me into classics was a radio show of a standup doing comedy about classics[1] (I like roman/greek history, but more about buildings and things rather than culture.)

I like the poetic archaic english in excerpts.

BUT

a whole book if it, thats hard.

[1]https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001brj5

I should add that had it been a long dry slog with serious people talking seriously about greek grammar, then I wouldn't have bothered. However because its a comedy, ostensibly, it stuck for me.

[suddenlybananas]

Oh I totally agree there is a place for more accessible language, but my point is that Wilson argues that archaic language is no more faithful. Whether a translation should be faithful or not is another question.

>“Mild stylistic archaism is often accepted without question in translations of ancient texts and can be presented as if it were a mark of authenticity. But of course, the English of the nineteenth or early twentieth century is no closer to Homeric Greek than the language of today. The use of a noncolloquial or archaizing linguistic register can blind readers to the real, inevitable, and vast gap between the Greek original and any modern translation.”

However, I think this is mistaken if Homer himself was writing in an archaic style at the time (which seems to be the case looking at the literature). If he's writing in an archaic style, then a faithful English translation ought to try and capture that aspect of the poetry.

[TheCoelacanth]

I don't think Homeric Greek was archaic at the time it was composed. It would have been by the time it was finally written down instead of being passed down orally.

There is a lot of archaism in the content, though much of it is fake archaism that doesn't reflect actual history.

[suddenlybananas]

There were artificial archaisms in Homer, like the inconsistent use of the digamma. It wasn't written in normal everyday language.

[KaiserPro]

> However, I think this is mistaken if Homer himself was writing in an archaic style at the time (which seems to be the case looking at the literature)

Now that is a debate for the ages!

There is an argument that its was written in that style because that's how it was sung/spoken. In the same way that the king james bible was poetic, but not archaic (thats an assertion that I haven't got direct evidence to back up, apart from it was radical to not have it in latin.)

However to us the king james verse: "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." sounds majestic where as a more modern version: "Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness[h] was over the surface of the watery deep" doesn't

Now if we were to move to more secular texts, part of the appeal of brigerton, apart from the sex, is the funny language. But at the time it wasn't archaic.

The same with raymond chandler, his novels were fast rolling and hard hitting police procedurals, but now the language is the part that evokes the atmosphere.

I think I agree with wilson, largely. Culture has a half life, some of it shorter than others. Part of the reason that the greek myths have endured is because they have been re-interpreted so often. After all a lot of later interpretations are mashed together from the entire canon, so are not "accurate" in any sense of the word. Also they are myths. The interpretation of them says almost as much about us as it does the greeks. Like how scifi is almost always social commentary.

tldr: yeah we pretty much agree.

[drcongo]

Never expected to see Natalie Haynes Stands Up for the Classics on HN. If you've not already heard it, you might also enjoy this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002y8t3

[watwut]

> whatever bards actually composed it were writing about something that allegedly happened hundreds of years earlier and using language/style that was itself archaic at the time.

How does that follow? When I read fantasy or legends, they tend to be written in contemporary language of the writer.

Why would a bard literally living from what listeners pay used words his listeners dont know?

This ballad was supposed to be part of oral tradition before being written. Remembering archaic language is harder then remembering something that flows.