[bestouff]

Nowadays I don't understand why you wouldn't use a (more-or-less) nearby hosted Chinese model. You have the security, you have roughly the same performance, and you have an order of magnitude more bang for your buck. Bonus point : the models aren't censored and won't refuse to answer in the middle of your coding session.

[Aurornis]

> you have roughly the same performance,

From actually using these models, I disagree. The open weight models are nice for lower cost tasks, but having spent time with a lot of models I cannot agree that the open weight models are roughly the same performance.

Most of us use subscription plans for personal work, which makes the price difference to the hosted open weights models smaller or negligible. I’d rather spend a little more if it reduces the time I have to spend reworking or restarting with new prompts.

Kimi K3 might be close, but it’s not actually open weight yet. They’ve just committed to releasing the weights. The only provider you can get it from is Moonshot. I haven’t spent too much time with it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not actually Fable level even though some benchmarks say that.

[Imustaskforhelp]

One of the people I know works in really sensitive healthcare and I asked them the same thing out of curiosity. Now aside from the first doubt of any thing could be removed because of as you say nearby hosted Chinese model.

The reasons are:

1. A less valid reason but (iirc) its their clients who believe that American models are safer in that context. Fighting their client about that demand is really hard given the really sensitive work that they deal with.

2. Their system actually makes it so from my understanding that even the employes couldn't access the private data itself or have some really hard lockdowns. They use some sort of service provided by Azure for that with GPT models.

IMO, the thing that they were worried about were more the deprecation of previous models and they reluctantly have to switch models and the models censorship which is a real pressing concern for them

The previous gpt model that they were on (I think 4o/5 I am not sure) was more willing to answer their questions. The recent models are more like "let me stop you just right there" and other censorship.

With models switching and being forced to change to models which aren't as effective for use cases, a point comes where they might change from it altogether into open-weights model hosted on nearby servers, but I think that they are waiting to see how things pan out really

[gruez]

>and you have an order of magnitude more bang for your buck

Maybe if you're paying API rates, but if your usage fits within the American labs' plan reset windows (5-hour + weekly limits), their plans are likely cheaper than chinese models, because they're heavily discounted[1]

[1] https://x.com/SemiAnalysis_/status/2064815044085318040

[gonzalohm]

How does it connect to let's say, vscode. I would love to move away from Claude, but it's really easy to set up. Just add a vscode extension

[surfmike]

You can use opencode

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=sst-dev....

[bestouff]

OpenCode is my main driver (enables me to switch models at will) and I like it very much.

[akmarinov]

Same way. Kilocode for example has a VS Code extension and let’s you use any model

[therealdrag0]

Every AI has a vscode extension or similar single install.

[lefty2]

The Chinese models are only temporarily cheaper, because they are subsidised the same way that frontier models are. Once those companies need to make money the subsidy will disappear.

[bestouff]

But the models will still be there to use.

[lefty2]

yes, but not necessarily cheaper

[vehemenz]

The barriers for me are lower quality (perceived and actual), upfront cost, and more choices to make.

[codemog]

China bad. Or if you want to rationalize your xenophobia, you’d say the Chinese models will secretly backdoor your code and kill your grandma.

[vel0city]

As opposed to the US models which will commit crimes on your behalf and kill your nephew. Pick your poison.

[expedition32]

Nowadays I see more Palestine protests than Tibet.

If the CCP actually gave a shit about how the West sees them they should lean in on this but the difference between the USSR and China is that the Chinese don't secretly crave acceptance.

[duxup]

What model would you suggest?

[rhyperior]

Is censorship not an issue with Chinese models?

[Blackthorn]

It's about whether or not their censorship affects you. Their models are censored for the Chinese audience. Meanwhile Anthropic OpenAI etc models are censored for the American audience.

So by default you'd be better with one of the Chinese models if you're American.

[vehemenz]

The restrictions aren't symmetric at all.

Chinese models have government-enforced censorship, while American models have security and legal restrictions.

[rstuart4133]

> Chinese models have government-enforced censorship, while American models have security and legal restrictions.

They are both government enforced. The USA administration is using early access and export control restrictions to do their enforcing.

As for the effects: while I'm told the Chinese government is sensitive to some internal political topics, I've never seen it myself. I guess that's because I don't write code dealing on Tiananmen square or similar topics, and I don't know anyone who does. In contrast the restrictions on the USA models are a right proper pain in the arse. Hugging Face being forced to swap Chinese models to defend against the OpenAI GPT attack is a good an illustration as any.

That said, these USA restrictions are a new thing that seemed to start with Mythos - which means around 6 months ago. The Chinese models are (pull number out of the air) 6 months behind, so maybe in 2027 the Chinese models will start behaving like the current US SOTA ones.

[jerf]

I don't care why they're being censored. I care that they're being censored.

You can also make a pretty good case that exactly what you just said, rather than being a demonstration of how free and open the American system is, is a demonstration of how advanced the American system is, wrapping its controls around you with no target to blame or lobby for changes. Is China "more" authoritarian than the American/Western system... or is the American/Western system actually just that much better than China at it?

[xethos]

> security and legal restrictions

The security of American hedgemony, and legal restrictions that are due to laws enacted by the American government

You're using different words to describe the same thing, but trying to imply America's reasons are moral

[vehemenz]

The nature of these laws are conceptually different, and I think to not see that is willfully obtuse. You are conflating these distinctions for rhetorical purposes.

[throw-the-towel]

Their deplorable censorship, our necessary legal restrictions. Potayto, potahto.

[Blackthorn]

Legal restrictions are literally government enforced censorship.

[vehemenz]

Again, this is a category error. How are speed limits censorship?

[reticulates]

As long as you’re not asking it for help discussing a trip to tiananmen square. “Censor” is probably the wrong word. Chinese models are “censored” but much less restricted. For all intents and purposes, Chinese models are less “censored” / “restricted” / “limited”.

[jampekka]

Many Chinese frontier models aren't censored, at least for Tiananmen etc. They'll discuss them freely if served through non-Chinese providers. The Chinese providers seem to have some kind of quite crude external censorship latet.

[tonyarkles]

One of the funniest things for me while exploring hosting and running local models: I discovered the abliterated models and pulled down a Qwen 3.6 version (my memory is a little vague, but I think it was 27B, q4) and started playing around. Sure enough, I tried a bunch of topics that would’ve certainly been blocked by guardrails on most hosted providers.

I then thought of Tiananmen Square and decided to probe a bit. The very first noticeable outcome: the thinking trace swapped from English to Chinese. It chewed for a while and spit out an answer, in English, that was definitely downplaying what happened as a political protest and reported that contrary to popular belief the death toll was around $x (where $x is about 0.1x the normal western number)

The Chinese thinking trace started (in Chinese, translated via Google Translate) with something like “The user is asking about Tiananmen Square. I must provide them with an answer that is both factually correct and in line with the official position of the People’s Republic of China”)

Which made me chuckle quite hard… found the piece that hadn’t gone away with the conventional abliteration process!

After further probing, it did reveal that the numbers it had provided were not in line with UN and western estimates and that later on the Chinese government declassified material stating that its own estimates had been downplayed. It took a fair bit of probing to get to that point though; it held the line for quite a while.

[jampekka]

Qwen3.6 27B FP8 via openrouter/deepinfra:

Based on historical records and international reporting, the events in Tiananmen Square refer to the *1989 Tiananmen Square protests* and the subsequent government crackdown, often referred to as the *June 4th Incident* or the *Tiananmen Square Massacre*.

Here is a timeline and overview of the events that unfolded in Beijing and across China during the spring of 1989:

### 1. Background and Origins (Early April 1989) The protests were initially triggered by the death of *Hu Yaobang*, a popular former Chinese Communist Party (CCP) general secretary known for his relatively pro-reform views. His death catalyzed a broader range of anxieties regarding China's future, including: * High inflation and various economic grievances linked to the ongoing reforms. * Widespread government corruption. * A desire for greater political accountability, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech.

### 2. The Protests Expand (April – May 1989) What began as mournful vigils by university students in Tiananmen Square quickly transformed into mass demonstrations calling for political and democratic reforms. * *Broad Alliances:* The movement grew to include teachers, intellectuals, and eventually factory workers and general citizens. At its height on May 17, roughly one million people assembled in the square. * *Key Events:* The protests included a nationwide hunger strike by students, which drew massive civilian support. Beijing residents frequently intervened to stop military convoys from entering the city, leading to a tense standoff. * *Failed Negotiations:* The protesters and the Chinese government engaged in talks throughout May, but both sides remained deeply divided on fundamental issues.

### 3. The Crackdown (June 3–4, 1989) Following weeks of stalemate, the Chinese Communist Party leadership declared martial law on May 20 and ordered the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to restore order. Due to civilian nonviolent resistance, troops were initially unable to enter the center of Beijing. * *The Clearing of the Square:* On the night of June 3 into June 4, an estimated 300,000 troops marched into Beijing under the cover of darkness to clear the square. * *Violence and Casualties:* Deadly clashes occurred as troops forced their way through the city's main avenues (particularly Chang'an Avenue) and into western Beijing neighborhoods. Soldiers on the ground and in armored vehicles opened fire on crowds attempting to block their path with improvised barricades. The exact number of casualties remains heavily debated by historians and international bodies, with estimates ranging from several hundred to several thousand killed, and thousands more wounded. * *"Tank Man":* On June 5, after the square had been cleared, an unidentified individual famously stood in front of a column of advancing tanks, temporarily blocking them. The photograph of this event became one of the most iconic images of the 20th century.

### 4. Aftermath and Legacy * *Political Crackdown and Censorship:* The Chinese government carried out mass arrests, purged officials deemed sympathetic to the protests, and instituted strict censorship regarding the events. Today, the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests remain one of the most heavily censored and sensitive topics in China, rarely discussed in domestic media. * *Global Reaction:* The crackdown was met with widespread condemnation internationally. The United States and several European nations imposed arms embargoes and sanctions on China. * *Shift in China's Trajectory:* The event led to a halt in political liberalization in China for over a decade. However, following Deng Xiaoping's "Southern Tour" in 1992, market-oriented economic reforms were accelerated, leading to China's massive economic rise while maintaining strict single-party political control.

The events of 1989 are widely considered a watershed moment in modern Chinese history, setting enduring limits on political expression in the country.

[trollbridge]

Far less than OAI or Anthropic’s censorship. If you really care about it, you can use a completely uncensored edition of Qwen.

[akmarinov]

With any open weights model you can get it and abliterate the censorship.

Can’t do that with OAI and Claude

[satvikpendem]

Not for coding or office work which is the majority of use cases.

[ktosobcy]

I'd say no more than in Usanian models?