[afavour]

> It would be a no-go for non-techies.

There are better solutions, like Apple’s HomeKit. I’m able to watch a camera that has no internet access because it passed through my Apple TV, which serves as a home hub. I didn’t have to set any of this up, it just works when you have the required hardware.

[Rohansi]

> I’m able to watch a camera that has no internet access because it passed through my Apple TV, which serves as a home hub.

How exactly does this prevent the same kind of issue for Apple devices? Aren't you just trusting that Apple handles your data better than TP-Link? Not saying they don't but routing through another device doesn't really add security on its own.

[afavour]

> Aren't you just trusting that Apple handles your data better than TP-Link?

I am, yes. Ultimately you’re going to need to trust some hardware, somewhere. No matter what you’re doing you have to trust that your home router doesn’t have an externally accessible SSH port with no password set.

Personally I trust Apple more than I trust TP Link with this stuff.

[Rohansi]

> Personally I trust Apple more than I trust TP Link with this stuff.

What if a TP-Link camera supported HomeKit Secure Video? You access the camera through Apple but all of these cameras are still directly connected to the internet, meaning you still need to trust the camera manufacturer.

[drnick1]

> No matter what you’re doing you have to trust that your home router doesn’t have an externally accessible SSH port with no password set.

No, you don't have to trust. I build my own routers precisely because I don't.

[pessimizer]

Pretty sure that just means that we trust Linux/Openwrt and the chip vendors.

[drnick1]

Linux and OpenWrt have an incredibly good security record compared to what ships on typical consumer devices.

[astafrig]

Doesn’t it? I do trust the manufacturer of the thing that I keep within arms reach from the moment I get it, and which knows more about me than I do, to have better security than whatever the hell a TUYA is that controls the lights.

[qurren]

HomeKit will take care of the VPN/remote access part, sure, but your devices still need to communicate with the HomeKit device, and that's usually over Wi-Fi, which puts the devices on the public internet, and carries the same security risk.

There are various non-internet protocols for IoT devices, none of them good:

* Zigbee: Requires some technical understanding to set up, devices randomly disconnect for hours even when they are 2ft from the coordinator, all-around horrible experience for non-techies

* Non-standard Zigbee variants: even worse

* Matter-over-Thread: horrendously designed from a UX perspective. Easy-to-lose barcodes stuck on cards in the packaging, weird 12-letter codes, and your non-techie cannot understand what the hell Matter or Thread is. Pairing is an absolute nightmare.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

> devices randomly disconnect for hours even when they are 2ft from the coordinator

I don't think that's normal. Like, to the point where I'm wondering if you have a bad opinion of the whole protocol because you got a faulty device.

[drnick1]

Yes this. My experience with Zigbee is that it just works, but the setup and specific hardware probably matters. I use a SONOFF USB dongle through Zigbee2MQTT and Home Assistant.

[holgerschurig]

> Zigbee

Requires no technical understanding. At least not more than e.g. a WIFI router.

> devices randomly disconnect for hours even when they are 2ft from the coordinator,

You present this like a fact. But it is at most an anecdote. I present you a different anecdote: I have ~30 zigbee devices, in two different houses (first a house with concrete floors and cellar and level 1..3) and now one old woodwork structure house with 2 floors. Nowhere did I had even half an hour of disconnection.

> all around-horrible

... excellent experience even for my ex-spouse, which is/was non-techie.

However, that you present Zigbee here at all is weird. Zigbee doesn't have any way to transport a camera stream. It's mean for low-powered battery devices. My temperature sensors got a 1500mAh AAA chargeable batteries and they lasts now for over one year. Note that I have sensors from ~ 15 different brands. Mostly battery powered sensors and mains power switchable plugs.

I also enjoy that these Zigbee devices are by design completely disconnected from any IP traffic. This, and their (intentional) low data rate make them almost impossible to misuse. E.g. as denial-of-service originators or amplifiers.

It's like you present WIFI as long-range thingy but actually you'd want LORA for that. I'm not assuming that knowing for what kind of usage a tech was designed as "needing technical understanding". After all, no one would claim "you need technical understanding" to know that you better use a truck instead of a Porsche Cayman to transport 50 cubic meters of sand.

[qurren]

> Nowhere did I had even half an hour of disconnection.

Well my garage door opener sensor has been disconnected for two 30 minute gaps today and my plant humidity sensors go offline for 2 weeks at a time.

So yeah, it's not ready for prime time.

> LORA

No, let's not even go there. Tech nerd protocol here that's an awkward middle ground that creates even more problems. Average Joes aren't going to set that crap up.

[Arch-TK]

Are you using a phoscon coordinator? ConBee 2 has a lot of firmware problems in my experience.

There are also some devices which advertise ZigBee compatibility but the manufacturers don't seem to test them against coordinators other than their own (and ConBee 2 seems to have the most problems in this regard).

The protocol is complex, they all are, implementing it correctly isn't a given, but I think the issues people have are more often a factor of how long a protocol has been in use than any fundamental aspect of it.

As soon as cheap hardware manufacturers get on board you get this problem.

Quality hardware works fine with ZigBee. It's by no means perfect technology, if you want that, use copper wires, but it doesn't work as badly as you claim if you are not unlucky with coordinators and devices.

[robocat]

Is your zigbee running at 2.4GHz? Everything interferes with that.

[watermelon0]

Practically all consumer Zigbee devices only support 2.4GHz. You would need to go for ZWave for the sub-GHz range.

Also, it's not like 860-930 MHz (depending on the country) is without interference.

[RetroTechie]

> My temperature sensors got a 1500mAh AAA chargeable batteries

You meant rechargeable? You seem to know more about Zigbee than about rechargeable batteries.

[Marsymars]

I dunno, through HomeKit, I've got a couple Zigbee networks (Hue and Ikea), a Z-Wave network (Home Assistant) and a Matter-over-Thread (Apple/Ikea) network, and they all seem pretty good?