[ajsnigrutin]

Sadly, that's far from truth...

"back in the day", you had an ericsson charger that fit in an ericsson phone and charget that ericsson phone well... and you had a nokia charger for you nokia that charged your nokia. They physically looked different, they wouldn't fit into any other device, and when you needed a charger, you'd take the one that fit the charging hole and it would charge.

Now, you have a bunch of usb C bricks, some just 5V usb, some USB PD, some QC(2, 3).... then you have a bunch of usb C cables, some with ID chips, some without, some able to carry 15 watts, some 100 watts, and then you have devices, some that can do QC, some that can do smart PD, some with just some resistors, some without even those.

Everything fits in every hole, every charger can take any cable and any device can take the other end of the cable.... but will this particular combo charge your laptop? The cable fits.. will it charge? What about those cheap earbuds that just want 5 volts? The USB-A to usb-C cable that came with them works, but the USB-C to USB-C that you bought after, doesn't. How about that smart LiPo charger, it's USB-C, but it needs at least 9 volts to charge, and not every power brick gives out that voltage. What about charging speed? Will it do fast charge? Your laptop charging light is on, but the battery percentage is going down... why? What about a powerbank, does it charge your laptop? How does it know who does the charging, and who is getting charged?

I mean sure, if you know your standards, you'll know what devices need PD and which ones use QC, you'll read the specs on the power bricks, you know how many watts your laptop needs, how to switch the current directions, which devices can't do proper handshakes, and need usbA->C cables, etc, and you'll get yourself a baggie of a few power bricks and cables for different stuff, but i had to label the cables for my mom, because while everything physically fits, many combinations won't actually charge your device. 10 years ago, this wasn't a problem, since her laptop charger didn't fit her wireless earphones, now it fits and it doesn't charge them.

[Shog9]

In practice, this complexity means you at least have a chance. Most phones and almost all low-power devices will accept power from most chargers and cables. Probably not at a maximum level, but if you're stuck somewhere you can get by.

Power-hungry laptops are trickier, but even so... I've gone a week or more trickle charging a laptop from whatever travel charger I happened to have on hand, using it for a few hours, then putting it in standby and charging it up again until finally the mfg-blessed replacement fast charger arrived. The alternative (and one I was faced with more than once in the bad old days) was "no laptop".

Worst experience I've had to date has been a Norco jump box that will charge via one high-power charger and one cable, a car charger it came with, and ... Via careful back feeding from a benchtop power supply.

[jsmith45]

I have successfully had am M1 MacBook open and in active use (albeit not with very heavy workload, mostly text editor and web), while plugged into a Nintendo Switch 1 charger (only thing I had handy at that moment), and was watching the battery percentage slowly increasing over time. So even laptops can sometimes charge slowly while in use with a rather underpowered type C charger (Albeit still slightly better than a cheapo 5V 3A Type-C phone charger).

[scarlehoff]

I've charged a Mac with the Switch cable, and a Switch with the Mac brick. Nowadays I charge everything with the same brick from a dell laptop from 2018.

Is it the most efficient? Probably not. Is it hurting the batteries of my devices? I guess?? I haven't noticed any issues with any device and that's 8 years now. Perhaps I've been lucky.

That's for charging. Data can be trickier, that's true, but often devices that use USB-C for serious stuff come with their own. Chargers from aliexpress-grade stuff I just discard to the drawer of the 1M-cables from where nothing will ever come out.

[zootboy]

> Is it hurting the batteries of my devices?

Unequivocally no, assuming your chargers are reasonably spec-compliant (e.g. not Aliexpress garbage). This is the whole point of type-C / USB-PD: chargers and devices should be more or less interchangeable. It's up to the device, not the charger, to charge its battery at an appropriate rate. The worst that can happen is plugging in an undersized charger, which may cause the device to charge slowly or not at all. If the device accepts a charge from the charger at a rate you find acceptable, then you're golden.

[ocimbote]

You may be right, and I've had to live some of that myself with docking stations, thunderbolt, and such.

But those moments are the exceptions. In my everyday life, when I need to charge _anything_, except maybe for the laptop itself, I just look for a charger with USB-C and it works. It maybe faster or slower depending on everything you just wrote, but it works.

On a side-note, when I take the charger of my laptop, it can charge absolutely everything.

So yes, that's a true and honest improvement.

[ajsnigrutin]

> thunderbolt

If you add data, it's even worse... does the cable do thunderbolt? USB 3.0? Or just 2.0? There's no way to know and the cable still fits

[kowbell]

> when you needed a charger, you'd take the one that fit the charging hole and it would charge.

I have three devices in my room right now that fit the "standard" barrel plug shape. One is 5V, one is 12V, one is 12V with inverted polarity. If I plug the wrong cable into the wrong device it will break permanently. They do have the decency to label somewhere on the device what kind of power it needs but that's something I need to check every time.

In contrast I bought a couple inexpensive 6' USB-C cables that do 100W charging, and a couple inexpensive bricks that support that too. Every USB-C device I own - my phone, my laptop, my earbuds, my portable batteries, my portable fans - every one of them can power/charge at full speed or at least very fast.

And more importantly, I know they aren't going to get fried if I'm tired or in a rush and I forgot to check the plugs. I made one purchase of some inexpensive good cables+bricks, and now I never need to think about it again.

[Dylan16807]

> Now, you have a bunch of usb C bricks, some just 5V usb, some USB PD, some QC(2, 3).... then you have a bunch of usb C cables, some with ID chips, some without, some able to carry 15 watts, some 100 watts, and then you have devices, some that can do QC, some that can do smart PD, some with just some resistors, some without even those.

I've never seen a USB C brick that supported some alternative to PD but not PD. Do many exist? Are they still making them?

Wattage of chargers is easy enough to handle.

Every non-defective cable can do 60 watts. That's enough for the vast majority of devices. If you have defective cables just get rid of them.

> will this particular combo charge your laptop?

If your laptop doesn't have weird DRM, the answer is either "every charger and every cable works" or "every 60W or higher charger and every cable works".

> How about that smart LiPo charger, it's USB-C, but it needs at least 9 volts to charge, and not every power brick gives out that voltage.

I think that's violating the standard so you'd have similar problems even without this kind of standard. But that's basically just a 30 watt requirement in practice which goes back to being easy.

> The USB-A to usb-C cable that came with them works, but the USB-C to USB-C that you bought after, doesn't.

That one's definitely violating the standard.

> What about charging speed? Will it do fast charge?

For anything under 60 watts, just read the number on the charger.

This is the same as with other kinds of plug, which can also vary in charging speed even when they're compatible.

For higher wattage laptops in particular you might care about cable choice. That's an annoyance but also easily solved by getting only high wattage cables.

> What about a powerbank, does it charge your laptop?

You've lost me. Without USB C a laptop power bank basically wouldn't exist. Weren't we comparing to back in the day?

[ajsnigrutin]

> I've never seen a USB C brick that supported some alternative to PD but not PD. Do many exist? Are they still making them?

They existed not that long ago, before usb c pd was a stanard, many samsung phones supported it (and not PD), and those powerbricks with those usb c cables still exist and still fit into PD phones.

> Wattage of chargers is easy enough to handle.

How? Explain that to my mom, she picks up a cable that fits her phone/laptop and plugs it in. Here's the charger: https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/sjoess-usb-polnilnik-z-2-vrati-... It says 45 watts, will that charge her laptop? Why won't her laptop charge if she's charging a phone too? That didn't happen with her old laptop charger.

> If your laptop doesn't have weird DRM, the answer is either "every charger and every cable works" or "every 60W or higher charger and every cable works".

https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/smahagel-napajalni-komplet-5060...

Will this one work? It won't, no usb PD support, but it fits into my moms PC, explain that to her. The cable is on her nightstand, she plugs it in, doesn't charge.

> I think that's violating the standard so you'd have similar problems even without this kind of standard. But that's basically just a 30 watt requirement in practice which goes back to being easy.

I have a charger and a soldering iron that just says voltage too low and doesn't work. The cable fits, but it doesn't work. I know why not, now explain it to my mom.

> That one's definitely violating the standard.

Sure, but she bought such a device, the cable fits but it doesn't charge.

> This is the same as with other kinds of plug, which can also vary in charging speed even when they're compatible.

What plug? Ericsson plug fit and charged the ericsson, same for nokia... usb C fits and doesn't charge.

> For higher wattage laptops in particular you might care about cable choice. That's an annoyance but also easily solved by getting only high wattage cables.

Again, explain that to my mom. how many watts? Is 60 enough? Ikea only has 45 watts, will that work? What is a watt? Why is it only 22 watts if she's also charging a phone?

> You've lost me. Without USB C a laptop power bank basically wouldn't exist. Weren't we comparing to back in the day?

Of course laptop powerbanks existed before USB C, they gave out usually 19 volts and the guy at the store would install a proper connector to fit your laptop and you'd lose the others. You'd charge it with a charger that fit that powerbank and charged it, then charge the laptop with it.

Now you buy this: https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/varmfront-prenosni-polnilnik-te... 18 watts.. will it charge the laptop? Won't it? Who knows. Will the power go from the laptop to the powerbank instead? Who knows! You have to read the goddamn manual for that to see, and the manual says:

> Charging power bank > • Connect the USB-C cable to the USB-C port of the power bank first and then connect the USB cable to a USB-charger or USB-outlet that can provide sufficient power to charge the power bank. The LED indicators will display the charging status.

> Supply power to devices > • Connect the USB cable to USB-C or USB-A port of the power bank first and then connect the USB-cable to your device that you want to charge. > • The power bank will detect a connected device and start charging automatically. > • The LED indicators will display the remaining charge in the power bank during discharging.

Now explain that to my mom. The cables fit.

Yes, i know i'm complaining, but i live just far away from my parents, that it's a pain to sit into a car and drive all the way there to swap some adapters or chargers, or cables and label what goes where and for what it can be used... and debugging that over the phone is a pain.

[Dylan16807]

> They existed not that long ago, before usb c pd was a stanard, many samsung phones supported it (and not PD), and those powerbricks with those usb c cables still exist and still fit into PD phones.

The PD 2.0 spec came out two and a half years before samsung's first USB C phone. And the power brick that came with it wasn't USB C.

> It says 45 watts, will that charge her laptop?

I'm not sure, but a 65 watt charger definitely would. "Get 65W for a laptop" isn't any harder than any other third party power supply for a laptop. Which is optional, you don't have to get a third party supply.

> Why won't her laptop charge if she's charging a phone too? That didn't happen with her old laptop charger.

Her old laptop charger didn't have a second phone plug. If you don't want the complexity then don't use it.

> Will this one work? It won't, no usb PD support, but it fits into my moms PC, explain that to her.

Okay. To your mom: Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That super cheap one is only 5. It can't do it.

> I have a charger and a soldering iron that just says voltage too low and doesn't work. The cable fits, but it doesn't work. I know why not, now explain it to my mom.

Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That one's too low.

> Sure, but she bought such a device, the cable fits but it doesn't charge.

This could have happened without USB C too. If it used a barrel plug it would also be more likely to catch fire if you used the wrong one that fits.

> Again, explain that to my mom. how many watts? Is 60 enough? Ikea only has 45 watts, will that work? What is a watt? Why is it only 22 watts if she's also charging a phone?

60 is enough. 45 might work, but it might not, so only buy it if you can return it easily. [Note: Buying a third party non-USB charger for your laptop has the same flaws.] Watt is how much electricity. If you put two things on the same charger, they have to share.

> Of course laptop powerbanks existed before USB C, they gave out usually 19 volts and the guy at the store would install a proper connector to fit your laptop and you'd lose the others. You'd charge it with a charger that fit that powerbank and charged it, then charge the laptop with it.

I saw one ever in an ad. They were very niche and the average person didn't know they existed, at least around here.

> 18 watts.. will it charge the laptop? Won't it? Who knows.

If you want to be sure then go for 60.

> Now explain that to my mom.

It says to use the same order for either direction so I really doubt that actually matters. So here's the instructions for your mom: Plug it into a charger to charge it. Plug it into a phone or laptop to use it. The lights show how full it is.

> Yes, i know i'm complaining, but i live just far away from my parents, that it's a pain to sit into a car and drive all the way there to swap some adapters or chargers, or cables and label what goes where and for what it can be used... and debugging that over the phone is a pain.

And what I'm saying is that a lot of these issues are not unique to USB at all. And most of the rest can be solved by either using the chargers that came with a device or hiding/trashing the e-waste chargers you have and only using the good ones.

[ajsnigrutin]

> The PD 2.0 spec came out two and a half years before samsung's first USB C phone. And the power brick that came with it wasn't USB C.

So what, there's a brick that does qc, and there a usb c connector on the other end. My mom plugs it in, it fits, and it doesn't charge.

> I'm not sure, but a 65 watt charger definitely would. "Get 65W for a laptop" isn't any harder than any other third party power supply for a laptop. Which is optional, you don't have to get a third party supply.

How would my mom know that? The cable fits.

> Her old laptop charger didn't have a second phone plug. If you don't want the complexity then don't use it.

So why does it fit if it doesn't work then? Why is the other plug there if it makes the first one stop working? Again, if you know what PD is, if you know what current is needed for what device, if you know the power needed to power and charge that device, and if you clearly mark everything so you don't use the wrong cable for the wrong device (since the bricks are behind the nightstand), "it just works". Normal people don't do that. Normal people buy something that fits. 45W, 65W who cares, ikea advertises it can charge a laptop, why would a phone prevent it from charging a laptop?

> Okay. To your mom: Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That super cheap one is only 5. It can't do it.

SO which ones are 60W? There are 3 similarly looking ones behind the nightsand, they all fit. So she must buy different colored cables now too, or move the nightstand every night to check which cable goes where?

> If you want to be sure then go for 60.

But my powerbank has only 18watts. I already have it. Will it charge the laptop? Or won't it? Or will the laptop charge the powerbank and drain the internal battery even faster?

> And what I'm saying is that a lot of these issues are not unique to USB at all. And most of the rest can be solved by either using the chargers that came with a device or hiding/trashing the e-waste chargers you have and only using the good ones.

Those troubles didn't exist before usb C, because every device had a custom plug that only fit that device and charged it properly, there was basically no way to mess them up. Something like this ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/So... ) would only fit inside an ericsson phone and charge it.

And then everyone said "we're going usb C, one cable for everything", and my mom is happy! But hey, that old charger with usbA->C cable gives her a warning that her phone is charging slowly... it fits, but it doesn't work properly. Her earbuds charge on that cable but not on the ikea charger. Her ikea charger charges her laptop and her phone, but if her phone is plugged in, her laptop still shows the charging light, but the battery percentage is going down. The phone charger that she got with her new phone will charge her phone but won't charge her laptop. Her powerbank will charge from her old phone charger and her new phone charger, the led will be on, but it will take ages to charge from the old charger. Her powerbank will sometimes charge her laptop and sometimes her laptop will charge her powerbank, who knows when and how, the manual is in the trash.

Want to add data to this? Which of her existing usb-c cables will do data at what speed? usb2? usb3? Will it work for video? Thunderbolt?

Yes i know, I should go there, throw all the powerbricks in the trash, buy only 65 watt ones, buy only proper thunderbolt capable usb c cables, and mark have her charge her earphones on the pc with her usbA->C cable, but that's a waste of money and a lot of electronics in the trash for no good reason. If i did that a few years ago when PD became a thing, she'd have 18W chargers everywhere and i'd have to replace them again when she bought a laptop with usb C charging. And again, I could do that, because I know the tech behind all that, and can read voltages and currents... if i didn't, i wouldn't even know what to buy, i'd just go to ikea (she likes white powerbricks for some reason), and get whichever was available, probably the 45W one, because it has two ports instead of one on the 65 watt one.

[Dylan16807]

> So what, there's a brick that does qc, and there a usb c connector on the other end. My mom plugs it in, it fits, and it doesn't charge.

Well it kind of sounds many of your complaints involve A-to-C cables and like, if we had a variety of plugs the issues caused by adapter cables would get significantly worse, not better.

> How would my mom know that? The cable fits.

This is a different scenario from someone asking if 45 watts will work.

> So why does it fit if it doesn't work then?

It does work. You said it worked.

> and if you clearly mark everything so you don't use the wrong cable for the wrong device (since the bricks are behind the nightstand)

Wait, is it two bricks or one brick? And either way you can solve that with a good brick.

> Normal people buy something that fits.

Yeah, do that! Where "fits" means watts, nobody is testing the physical plug in the store. Buy something where the spec fits.

> ikea advertises it can charge a laptop, why would a phone prevent it from charging a laptop?

Normal people can understand "if you split the power it splits the power", Jesus.

One device per brick if you don't want to split the power. Simple.

> SO which ones are 60W? There are 3 similarly looking ones behind the nightsand, they all fit. So she must buy different colored cables now too, or move the nightstand every night to check which cable goes where?

Three bricks? Four cables total? Yeah different cable colors would be fine I guess.

Again I mention that going by "the cable fits" with a bunch of random barrel plugs could set things on fire. Needing to distinguish cables is annoying but at least avoids danger. And you can get a brick that handles everything if you want.

> But my powerbank has only 18watts. I already have it. Will it charge the laptop? Or won't it?

If you already have it then just test it, dude. Without USB a random power bank would have 5% odds of working at all, and you'd still need to test it to know, so this is a very petty complaint at this point.

> Those troubles didn't exist before usb C, because every device had a custom plug that only fit that device and charged it properly, there was basically no way to mess them up.

But sometimes those plugs match and yes you can mess them up.

And custom plugs make it so much harder to plug things in in multiple places, or get replacements.

> but it will take ages to charge from the old charger

This was true of a lot of phones before USB-C ever existed.

> Yes i know, I should

It sounds like a couple labels would work for this situation. And they'd be less annoying than repeatedly trying very similar but not identical plugs to see which fits.

[marcosdumay]

Yep, we gained nothing from moving laptops and other high power devices into USB, instead of finishing the standardization of the barrel connector. Laptops chargers were already almost all compatible, and there is no reason to mix them with the low power devices.

[Dylan16807]

Well it saved me last year when I forgot my laptop's charger on a trip and ran it off my phone charger instead.