[ajsnigrutin]

> I've never seen a USB C brick that supported some alternative to PD but not PD. Do many exist? Are they still making them?

They existed not that long ago, before usb c pd was a stanard, many samsung phones supported it (and not PD), and those powerbricks with those usb c cables still exist and still fit into PD phones.

> Wattage of chargers is easy enough to handle.

How? Explain that to my mom, she picks up a cable that fits her phone/laptop and plugs it in. Here's the charger: https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/sjoess-usb-polnilnik-z-2-vrati-... It says 45 watts, will that charge her laptop? Why won't her laptop charge if she's charging a phone too? That didn't happen with her old laptop charger.

> If your laptop doesn't have weird DRM, the answer is either "every charger and every cable works" or "every 60W or higher charger and every cable works".

https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/smahagel-napajalni-komplet-5060...

Will this one work? It won't, no usb PD support, but it fits into my moms PC, explain that to her. The cable is on her nightstand, she plugs it in, doesn't charge.

> I think that's violating the standard so you'd have similar problems even without this kind of standard. But that's basically just a 30 watt requirement in practice which goes back to being easy.

I have a charger and a soldering iron that just says voltage too low and doesn't work. The cable fits, but it doesn't work. I know why not, now explain it to my mom.

> That one's definitely violating the standard.

Sure, but she bought such a device, the cable fits but it doesn't charge.

> This is the same as with other kinds of plug, which can also vary in charging speed even when they're compatible.

What plug? Ericsson plug fit and charged the ericsson, same for nokia... usb C fits and doesn't charge.

> For higher wattage laptops in particular you might care about cable choice. That's an annoyance but also easily solved by getting only high wattage cables.

Again, explain that to my mom. how many watts? Is 60 enough? Ikea only has 45 watts, will that work? What is a watt? Why is it only 22 watts if she's also charging a phone?

> You've lost me. Without USB C a laptop power bank basically wouldn't exist. Weren't we comparing to back in the day?

Of course laptop powerbanks existed before USB C, they gave out usually 19 volts and the guy at the store would install a proper connector to fit your laptop and you'd lose the others. You'd charge it with a charger that fit that powerbank and charged it, then charge the laptop with it.

Now you buy this: https://www.ikea.com/si/sl/p/varmfront-prenosni-polnilnik-te... 18 watts.. will it charge the laptop? Won't it? Who knows. Will the power go from the laptop to the powerbank instead? Who knows! You have to read the goddamn manual for that to see, and the manual says:

> Charging power bank > • Connect the USB-C cable to the USB-C port of the power bank first and then connect the USB cable to a USB-charger or USB-outlet that can provide sufficient power to charge the power bank. The LED indicators will display the charging status.

> Supply power to devices > • Connect the USB cable to USB-C or USB-A port of the power bank first and then connect the USB-cable to your device that you want to charge. > • The power bank will detect a connected device and start charging automatically. > • The LED indicators will display the remaining charge in the power bank during discharging.

Now explain that to my mom. The cables fit.

Yes, i know i'm complaining, but i live just far away from my parents, that it's a pain to sit into a car and drive all the way there to swap some adapters or chargers, or cables and label what goes where and for what it can be used... and debugging that over the phone is a pain.

[Dylan16807]

> They existed not that long ago, before usb c pd was a stanard, many samsung phones supported it (and not PD), and those powerbricks with those usb c cables still exist and still fit into PD phones.

The PD 2.0 spec came out two and a half years before samsung's first USB C phone. And the power brick that came with it wasn't USB C.

> It says 45 watts, will that charge her laptop?

I'm not sure, but a 65 watt charger definitely would. "Get 65W for a laptop" isn't any harder than any other third party power supply for a laptop. Which is optional, you don't have to get a third party supply.

> Why won't her laptop charge if she's charging a phone too? That didn't happen with her old laptop charger.

Her old laptop charger didn't have a second phone plug. If you don't want the complexity then don't use it.

> Will this one work? It won't, no usb PD support, but it fits into my moms PC, explain that to her.

Okay. To your mom: Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That super cheap one is only 5. It can't do it.

> I have a charger and a soldering iron that just says voltage too low and doesn't work. The cable fits, but it doesn't work. I know why not, now explain it to my mom.

Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That one's too low.

> Sure, but she bought such a device, the cable fits but it doesn't charge.

This could have happened without USB C too. If it used a barrel plug it would also be more likely to catch fire if you used the wrong one that fits.

> Again, explain that to my mom. how many watts? Is 60 enough? Ikea only has 45 watts, will that work? What is a watt? Why is it only 22 watts if she's also charging a phone?

60 is enough. 45 might work, but it might not, so only buy it if you can return it easily. [Note: Buying a third party non-USB charger for your laptop has the same flaws.] Watt is how much electricity. If you put two things on the same charger, they have to share.

> Of course laptop powerbanks existed before USB C, they gave out usually 19 volts and the guy at the store would install a proper connector to fit your laptop and you'd lose the others. You'd charge it with a charger that fit that powerbank and charged it, then charge the laptop with it.

I saw one ever in an ad. They were very niche and the average person didn't know they existed, at least around here.

> 18 watts.. will it charge the laptop? Won't it? Who knows.

If you want to be sure then go for 60.

> Now explain that to my mom.

It says to use the same order for either direction so I really doubt that actually matters. So here's the instructions for your mom: Plug it into a charger to charge it. Plug it into a phone or laptop to use it. The lights show how full it is.

> Yes, i know i'm complaining, but i live just far away from my parents, that it's a pain to sit into a car and drive all the way there to swap some adapters or chargers, or cables and label what goes where and for what it can be used... and debugging that over the phone is a pain.

And what I'm saying is that a lot of these issues are not unique to USB at all. And most of the rest can be solved by either using the chargers that came with a device or hiding/trashing the e-waste chargers you have and only using the good ones.

[ajsnigrutin]

> The PD 2.0 spec came out two and a half years before samsung's first USB C phone. And the power brick that came with it wasn't USB C.

So what, there's a brick that does qc, and there a usb c connector on the other end. My mom plugs it in, it fits, and it doesn't charge.

> I'm not sure, but a 65 watt charger definitely would. "Get 65W for a laptop" isn't any harder than any other third party power supply for a laptop. Which is optional, you don't have to get a third party supply.

How would my mom know that? The cable fits.

> Her old laptop charger didn't have a second phone plug. If you don't want the complexity then don't use it.

So why does it fit if it doesn't work then? Why is the other plug there if it makes the first one stop working? Again, if you know what PD is, if you know what current is needed for what device, if you know the power needed to power and charge that device, and if you clearly mark everything so you don't use the wrong cable for the wrong device (since the bricks are behind the nightstand), "it just works". Normal people don't do that. Normal people buy something that fits. 45W, 65W who cares, ikea advertises it can charge a laptop, why would a phone prevent it from charging a laptop?

> Okay. To your mom: Every 60 watt or higher charger will work. That super cheap one is only 5. It can't do it.

SO which ones are 60W? There are 3 similarly looking ones behind the nightsand, they all fit. So she must buy different colored cables now too, or move the nightstand every night to check which cable goes where?

> If you want to be sure then go for 60.

But my powerbank has only 18watts. I already have it. Will it charge the laptop? Or won't it? Or will the laptop charge the powerbank and drain the internal battery even faster?

> And what I'm saying is that a lot of these issues are not unique to USB at all. And most of the rest can be solved by either using the chargers that came with a device or hiding/trashing the e-waste chargers you have and only using the good ones.

Those troubles didn't exist before usb C, because every device had a custom plug that only fit that device and charged it properly, there was basically no way to mess them up. Something like this ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/So... ) would only fit inside an ericsson phone and charge it.

And then everyone said "we're going usb C, one cable for everything", and my mom is happy! But hey, that old charger with usbA->C cable gives her a warning that her phone is charging slowly... it fits, but it doesn't work properly. Her earbuds charge on that cable but not on the ikea charger. Her ikea charger charges her laptop and her phone, but if her phone is plugged in, her laptop still shows the charging light, but the battery percentage is going down. The phone charger that she got with her new phone will charge her phone but won't charge her laptop. Her powerbank will charge from her old phone charger and her new phone charger, the led will be on, but it will take ages to charge from the old charger. Her powerbank will sometimes charge her laptop and sometimes her laptop will charge her powerbank, who knows when and how, the manual is in the trash.

Want to add data to this? Which of her existing usb-c cables will do data at what speed? usb2? usb3? Will it work for video? Thunderbolt?

Yes i know, I should go there, throw all the powerbricks in the trash, buy only 65 watt ones, buy only proper thunderbolt capable usb c cables, and mark have her charge her earphones on the pc with her usbA->C cable, but that's a waste of money and a lot of electronics in the trash for no good reason. If i did that a few years ago when PD became a thing, she'd have 18W chargers everywhere and i'd have to replace them again when she bought a laptop with usb C charging. And again, I could do that, because I know the tech behind all that, and can read voltages and currents... if i didn't, i wouldn't even know what to buy, i'd just go to ikea (she likes white powerbricks for some reason), and get whichever was available, probably the 45W one, because it has two ports instead of one on the 65 watt one.

[Dylan16807]

> So what, there's a brick that does qc, and there a usb c connector on the other end. My mom plugs it in, it fits, and it doesn't charge.

Well it kind of sounds many of your complaints involve A-to-C cables and like, if we had a variety of plugs the issues caused by adapter cables would get significantly worse, not better.

> How would my mom know that? The cable fits.

This is a different scenario from someone asking if 45 watts will work.

> So why does it fit if it doesn't work then?

It does work. You said it worked.

> and if you clearly mark everything so you don't use the wrong cable for the wrong device (since the bricks are behind the nightstand)

Wait, is it two bricks or one brick? And either way you can solve that with a good brick.

> Normal people buy something that fits.

Yeah, do that! Where "fits" means watts, nobody is testing the physical plug in the store. Buy something where the spec fits.

> ikea advertises it can charge a laptop, why would a phone prevent it from charging a laptop?

Normal people can understand "if you split the power it splits the power", Jesus.

One device per brick if you don't want to split the power. Simple.

> SO which ones are 60W? There are 3 similarly looking ones behind the nightsand, they all fit. So she must buy different colored cables now too, or move the nightstand every night to check which cable goes where?

Three bricks? Four cables total? Yeah different cable colors would be fine I guess.

Again I mention that going by "the cable fits" with a bunch of random barrel plugs could set things on fire. Needing to distinguish cables is annoying but at least avoids danger. And you can get a brick that handles everything if you want.

> But my powerbank has only 18watts. I already have it. Will it charge the laptop? Or won't it?

If you already have it then just test it, dude. Without USB a random power bank would have 5% odds of working at all, and you'd still need to test it to know, so this is a very petty complaint at this point.

> Those troubles didn't exist before usb C, because every device had a custom plug that only fit that device and charged it properly, there was basically no way to mess them up.

But sometimes those plugs match and yes you can mess them up.

And custom plugs make it so much harder to plug things in in multiple places, or get replacements.

> but it will take ages to charge from the old charger

This was true of a lot of phones before USB-C ever existed.

> Yes i know, I should

It sounds like a couple labels would work for this situation. And they'd be less annoying than repeatedly trying very similar but not identical plugs to see which fits.