[wartywhoa23]

> fighting evil in this world is highly commendable

Except more often than not it is fighting not evil but sleeping civilians who don't support this war, which is not even war in the strict sense of the word, but a deliberate meatgrinder set up to devour as much human beings on both sides as its orchestrators can get away with, for as long as possible.

[vanviegen]

Is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine is targeting civilians?

And what 'orchestrators' exactly do you think benefit from sending their soldiers through a meat grinder? Yes, Russia (not Ukraine) has done a lot of that, but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?

[Pay08]

> Is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine is targeting civilians?

Don't you know that big bad Ukraine forced innocent little Russia into this war?! (Do I need to add the sarcasm mark?)

> but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?

Actually, to some extent, that is the case. Russia has been conscripting violent criminals (generally murderers and rapists), who, unlike normal prisoners getting conscripted, don't have a way to "earn" their freedom and are instead sent into the proverbial meat grinder.

[le-mark]

Russia emptied the prisons years ago. The able bodied men of Donetsk and Luhansk were rounded up and fed to grinder years ago as well. The wanton slaughter of their own people has been startling and depraved for their unending exuberance.

[warumdarum]

The minorities from the regions came next. Then came the allies from the antiimperialist block days. Now they reach for the gullible of the world.

[wartywhoa23]

My evidence is waking up in the night from the sound of explosions in a city 150 km from the active front line, and then reading about a civilian building, or multiple buildings, hit in the morning. Sometimes even walking in person to see the aftermath.

I don't have any hard evidence that drones that hit Russian civilian buildings are even launched from Ukraine. What is known for a fact, is that they often belong to the same waves of attacks that hit industrial and military facilities. And for a fact, certain remote operators are responsible for that.

See, most will find my POV heavily tinfoil-headed, but try to understand it: I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.

For example, I don't see any plausible explanation how drones with a radar cross-section of a Cessna are able to fly from Ukraine 1500-2000 km deep into Russia, other than either being turned the blind eye to by the Russian air defense, or straight up launched and controlled by entities within the country.

That it is pretty possible, can be understood by in depth reading on 1999 explosions in Moscow and Volgodonsk which inaugurated Putin's rule, and peculiar details like that slip when Zhirinovsky spoke about the Volgodonsk explosion before the event proper. Also, the prevented explosion in Ryazan (look up "Ryazan sugar"). And by mere living in Russia and noticing things around.

There is always an SMS warning in advance of every wave of attacks, but drones fly unimpeded and it is only in the vicinity of towns and cities that the air defense kicks in, often sending "the debris" neatly into residential buildings.

No attacks on key infrastructure were ever made that would cut war logistics on both sides, both sides never attempted to attack any key (like, really key, not some sacrifice rooks or bishops) figure of its "enemy" Khomeini or Maduro style, in fact, nothing is ever made that should have been made in a real war. Only slow, deliberate, controlled smoldering. Fighting over strategically meaningless villages and towns with losses in many tens of thousands, only to back down and then try to recapture with same losses multiple times.

All in all it takes living here and boiling in it, nothing I wrote could be obvious or even entertained as possible to a foreigner who doesn't follow the news daily and only sees the broadest strokes presented by foreign mass media.

As to what the orchestrators benefit - it's multifaceted, but goes along the lines of slaughtering the battle-worthy passionaries who would otherwise prove dangerous to the globalist plans for CBDC, total digital control and surveillance in slavic countries, displacing them with meek migrant workers, terrorizing the remaining populace into complete apathy and acceptance of whatever new normals those plans set, training military AI on real-world bloody datasets, limiting the freedom of movement by deliberately created fuel shortages, which makes well for 15-minute cities, etc, etc per WEF, IMF, World Bank, Blackrock and whatever scum there is still in the shadow.

[metoobruh]

I am an American and what you are saying is 100% correct. You're just about 10 levels above the knowledge/understanding of the highly propagandized geeks who post here. Quoted for truth:

> I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.

It's all staged, all coordinated internationally by a secret club (Luciferians) who control all "opposing sides", all world governments and religions. Everything happens according to a script, and everyone is controlled by the same script. The war is a big meat grinder designed to kill off as many worthy men and women as possible in a slow burn, just as trench warfare did in WW1.

All of this is leading to the next global war, in which they plan to crush the USA exactly as they did to Germany. I am the sort of person they plan to eliminate somewhere along the way, as are you. They won't be getting me; I hope they don't get you.

In your country are they trying to set the stage for a future fake "alien invasion", just like they have been doing here for a long time?

After the men and women of all powerful nations are destroyed and last vestiges of freedom are replaced by enslavement to a central world government and one world religion, that's when the perpetual "war against the aliens" begins, as their new form of population control.

[wartywhoa23]

> In your country are they trying to set the stage for a future fake "alien invasion", just like they have been doing here for a long time?

They have hard time with pushing even the current stages of the agenda.

The launch of the wildly, and I mean wildly unpopular CBDC, ahem, digital rouble was postponed multiple times, but this time "the real deal" is scheduled by the Russian Central Bank for this autumn.

The selling narrative about convenience, modernity and helping fight corruption has failed miserably, and now they will force it using the fuel crisis at hand - which has all the potential to become a food crisis if (when) the autumn harvest gets disrupted.

They have already been rolling out QR codes for buying gas on odd/even days of week, by the first digit of the registration plate, etc, and the "government" messenger, also wildly unpopular but shoved down the throat to all kinds of civil servants, is on standby to become the only distribution channel for said QRs.

God bless you, my friend.

[metoobruh]

Here it's the opposite--they have been very quiet and cautious about pushing CBDC, flying low under the radar, moving slowly and carefully. They just eliminated the penny (1 cent coin) and have the nickel (5 cent) in their crosshairs next. Cash usage is still strong in my rural area, but card usage is continually growing.

There was a mysterious "coin shortage" which suddenly arose during COVID for unexplained reasons, which was pushed by the big chain stores. Apparently locally owned stores, credit unions, etc didn't get that memo, as they never did mention any "coin shortage." Even at the big stores, there was no problem paying with cash and receiving change. It's clear what they're doing.

More and more self-checkout registers are card-only now, with only one cash machine. Eventually that will be gone when the timing is right.

It's nice to hear that the agenda has been unpopular in your area vs. the masses of clueless sheep walking into the slaughterhouse here, but unfortunately they will get their way in the end regardless. Here all NWO goals will be achieved by complete destruction of the country and government and crushing of all resistance afterward. In Russia however, who are planned to be victors in the war, in some ways it will be worse.

One of my great grandfathers knew that WW2 was a lie and that everything was propaganda, so he decided to "opt out" of the draft. He pretended to be sick, but they didn't believe him and put him in a brig where he sat out the war. Otherwise he would have fought in the Pacific theater and would have likely died in agony in some island battle, as they had planned for him. Instead he came back home in disgrace to a victorious nation, and was branded a coward and loser for the rest of his life.

When Russia is victorious it will likewise be bad luck to have opposed the government or avoided the war, for decades to come. Be warned. It may be best to escape to Siberia and disappear into the forest for years, emerging decades later all surprised like you didn't even know there was a war, lol.

For my part, I saw all this coming many years ago and am well off grid at this point. So they won't be drafting me into this one either, and there won't be anyone left alive to shame me about it later.

God bless you too, friend!

[rwyinuse]

If Russian civilians stopped sleeping and took up arms against their government, then maybe this war could end. The people responsible are all members of the Russian government, and Russian people's apathy (or in many cases support for the war) enables them.

[wartywhoa23]

Let's see how you'll manage to stop your own governments from implementing total digital panopticon via Chat Control etc, from mongering wars half the equator away from your country, and everything else you won't like in what future holds for the West and the world in general.

I sincerely hope you'll be able to, thus proving that the people of the West are not as asleep at the wheel as Russians.

[drysine]

The more and more would demand quite the opposite from Kremlin - to escalate already.

[mopsi]

No, that's just an impotent power fantasy. Even among the hardcore nationalist crowd (the so-called "Z-society"), support for the use of nuclear weapons remains a fringe position, because nuclear weapons are not known to spawn conscripts and gasoline, lower the price of potatoes and carrots and other essentials, or attract Chinese foreign investments.

[yakshaving_jgt]

Only the russians are targeting civilians.

[drysine]

You are misinformed.

Here is one of the top Ukrainian propagandists posting in his personal channel a video from Belgorod (Russia) that shows wounded Russian women screaming and thrashing in agony (the text reads "Happy New Year, bitches") after Ukrainian MLRS strike at the city: https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official/39688

Here is the Ukraine targeting the same high-rise apartment building in Kazan with multiple drones: https://t.me/readovkanews/91042

Here is the Ukraine blowing a bridge in Russia exactly when a passenger train was passing under it leading to deaths of civilians including children: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/01/deaths-as-russ...

Here is Ukrainian regime striking a college with multiple drones and killing 21 students: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Starobilsk_strike#Casualt...

[yakshaving_jgt]

You are a russian propagandist.

We’ve seen you here before, and we’ve called out your bullshit before.

Go to the front Ivan. Put seeds in your pockets.

Anyone can look at your comment history and see that you are here to antagonise, and to spread disinformation in service of the russian regime and its leading war criminal.

This forum is meant to be for substantive discussion primarily about the intersection of technology and things that people in STEM would be intellectually curious about.

This forum is not for spreading lies as you have been doing for so long.

[drysine]

I see that you don't like my comment.

I'm sure you'll find an excuse for Ukrainian nationalists in each case I linked to - that's fine, it fits your beliefs about current Ukrainian regime.

But then will you be able to find any case where Ukrainian civilians died that couldn't be excused in exactly the same way?

Can you be consistent in your judgement?

[yakshaving_jgt]

Your terrorists have been launching missiles and drones at me and my neighbours for years.

I see it with my own eyes.

Your attacks on the people I care about dearly are routine. Every fucking day, you scum try and kill us.

Seeds in your pocket. Go to the front.

I’ll tell you what. Give me your address and I’ll send you a postcard from the Ukrainian city of Odesa, where the Ukrainian flag flies proudly on every street, and where your terrorists will never reach. Because Odesa is Ukraine forever. Kherson is Ukraine. Kharkiv is Ukraine. Kyiv is Ukraine. Donbas is Ukraine. Crimea is Ukraine.

Go to the front.

[drysine]

>the Ukrainian city of Odesa

It's Odessa, the city founded by the Russian Empress Catherine the Great in 1794 on the land taken by the Russian Army from the Ottoman Empire.[0]

The only thing Odessa is known for under the Ukrainian rule is burning 42 pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens[1] by Ukrainian nationalists. After that a Ukrainian president, billionaire Poroshenko, praised the city for being truly banderite[2] city. Yes, that is considered a praise by the Kiev regime.

"The European Court of Human Rights Court held, unanimously, that there had been: violations of Article 2 (right to life/investigation) of the European Convention on Human Rights, on account of the relevant authorities’ failure to do everything that could reasonably be expected of them to prevent the violence in Odesa on 2 May 2014, to stop that violence after its outbreak, to ensure timely rescue measures for people trapped in the fire, and to institute and conduct an effective investigation into the events" [3]

>Because Odesa is Ukraine forever.

It's not for a Polish expat to decide. The Kiev regime is not hunting you when you walk the streets of Odessa.[4] They won't grab you and send to the frontline. When men are desperately calling bystanders for help, you walk by, look away and keep supporting the regime that does that.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Jassy

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Casualties

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderite

[3] https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conversion/pdf/?library=ECHR&...

[4] https://busification.org/en/city/odesa

[throwawaytea]

The Ukrainian executed 100k Polish civilians not too long ago, but I'm sure now they are angels.

[yakshaving_jgt]

You’re not a Konfederacja voter by any chance?

I’m so fucking embarrassed to be Polish and hear this populism bullshit from Nawrocki and any other compromised russian shill.

You know who killed our people? The fucking russians. Remember when the bad guys came from Berlin? The other bad guys came from Moscow. Don’t forget that.

———

For anyone unsure what this throwaway account is talking about: when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.

[iugtmkbdfil834]

Stop. The whole thing is ridiculous from simple historical perspective. Poland was razed down, pillaged, 'visited', 'saved', enriched and whole host of other euphemisms over the course of its hundreds of years of various types of existence by a rather long list of conquerors.

<< when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.

Sigh, it is not bad faith. If anything, it is bad faith to pretend past did not happen.

[yakshaving_jgt]

Nobody is pretending this didn’t happen. Least of all the Ukrainians.

[throwawaytea]

They literally celebrate the group that did it, tofl this day. Zalensky recently had a medal/award rescinded by Poland because of it.

[ponector]

Polish estimates are closer to 20k, btw. And Polish forces executed thousands of Ukrainians as well during the same events.

Also don't forget russians executed 22k Polish prisoners of war in 1940 and lied about it for decades.

Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians who are holding back russians? Russians who are casually invade neighbors once in a while and committing atrocities

[iugtmkbdfil834]

Hmm, it is mildly fascinating that it has to be said. Germans in government typically don't celebrate the adherents to the events that Poles were subjected to. Ukrainian government on the other hand uses lets call it something of an ambiguous framing to make it charitable. Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2 ( all while effectively enforcing its particular brand of crazy upon the land ).

Now, Ukraine is absorbing Russia's onslaught ( and that is something Poles benefit from even if they don't admit it ), but lets be clear. They ( Ukraine ) are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

[yakshaving_jgt]

> Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

[iugtmkbdfil834]

I have to remember to stop trying to use euphemisms on the world wide web.

[drysine]

>Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians

Germans condemn what they did, the Ukrainians are making Pantheon[0][1] of their war criminals who committed genocide[2].

[0] https://kyivindependent.com/pantheon-of-ukrainian-heroes-to-...

[1] https://tvpworld.com/94337029/polands-divided-right-puts-ukr...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia...

[throwawaytea]

Do you also inform Jewish people about the lower bound estimates of their people killed, or only Polish people?