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by jph00 19 days ago
Heaven forbid we let poor people use software that helps their kids read.

If they can't afford a tutor, they deserve nothing.

(Am I doing this right?)

4 comments

Your reaction is based on 3 unproven assertions:

* An AI tutor is a net positive in learning for the subject matter it covers.

* An AI tutor does not cause other harms.

* An AI tutor is going to be cheap enough that someone who cannot afford a human tutor will still be able to afford an AI tutor.

I'm mostly willing to give the benefit of the doubt on the first point, but the third point seems unlikely, and history has given us no shortage of reasons to distrust tech companies on the second point, even if we assume this company can be trusted now.

The second one feels like a subset of the first. If it’s net positive, the other harms are worth it.

And I don’t think you’re really engaging with what they said, which is that it might be better than nothing, which is what is realistically available to many kids. Do you really think something like this is worse than nothing?

I limited the first point to specifically deal with learning the subject matter, but I added the second point to account for any negative externalities which may fall outside that.

A small (contrived) example: a child uses an AI tutor because they're falling behind in mathematics. The tutor does an excellent job at getting the child back up to speed and improving his/her grades in math, but the child then starts becoming dependent on AI tutors for all subjects because they've either lost interest or capability for self-learning.

We've already seen a study or two indicate extended use of AI coding agents causes some people to lose their own coding ability over time, making them dependent upon the agents. It doesn't seem far-fetched that children could become dependent upon AI tutors in a similar fashion.

That's not to mention that AI tutors require children to have computer access, which would ultimately cement in place school laptop programs I was under the impression were neutral to net negative in and of themselves.

So yes, in short, I think AI tutors have the potential to be worse than nothing. I'm not asserting they are, but I'd like to see some studies done on the topic before rolling them out for children en masse.

Your reaction is based on 3 unproven assertions:

* An AI tutor is a net negative in learning for the subject matter it covers.

* An AI tutor does cause other harms.

* An AI tutor is going to be more expensive that someone who cannot afford a human tutor will still be able to afford an AI tutor.

Seriously, my first reaction to reading this headline was a knee jerk "are you insane", but this whole thread is just people arguing out of their arse while claiming authority. As of today, it was never attempted. It is also possible that the kids gain an advantage by learning to use llms to teach themselves things, which would be positive for their future.

I don't think it's going to happen, but that's just my opinion based on essentially prejudice, not a fact

there's a big universe of solutions between getting nothing versus getting an AI 'educational' software that could do more harm than good.
Won't somebody think of the poor people's kids?!

Seriously though, it's great they're going to donate all this compute & tokens to the poor (who by definition can't afford to pay for it).

We could encourage parents to take an active role in tutoring their kids but I guess that's just entirely out of the question?

Nah. Let's have AI do it

Yeah tell them to change things.. why didn't we think of that? Provide opportunities to make parenting less stressful like here so that they can involve more.. this reflexive anti AI luddite attitude isn't productive as it's just less signal and more noise..
A reflexive anti-AI Luddite attitude is the healthy default until there is overwhelming evidence otherwise.

We should be wary of all new technology until it’s proven to be a benefit to society.

> We should be wary of all new technology until it’s proven to be a benefit to society.

Nope. Any nation that thinks like this will be outcompeted by more tech-positive nations in the long-term. It's on the luddites to demonstrate evidence of harm, if they want some use of technology banned.

>It's on the luddites to demonstrate evidence of harm, if they want some use of technology banned.

Here's one study from last year (1000 students) [1]. They showed that improved outcomes with AI are short term, and likely a result of AI doing the work for the student. Their methodology involved a test without the use of AI at a later date, and one of the groups who used AI tested much worse than the control group who did not use AI during learning.

Moreover, a tertiary group that used a specially trained AI for tutoring showed no improvement in testing outcomes over the control group.

[1] Bastani, H., Bastani, O., Sungu, A., Ge, H., Kabakçı, Ö., & Mariman, R. (2025). "Generative AI Without Guardrails Can Harm Learning: Evidence from High School Mathematics." PNAS, 122. PNAS

> It's on the luddites to demonstrate evidence of harm, if they want some use of technology banned.

But then we're told we can't put the genie back in the bottle, it's too late, so we just have to suck it up and deal with it.

There's nothing preventing us from taking a more measured approach to new technology other than choice.

It's not reflexive, I've spent a lot of time and effort considering why I think AI is bad for society.
"reflexive anti AI luddite attitude"

That's awfully reductive there, champ. Most critiques of AI are based on some combination of observed failings of the technology, observed failings of the tech industry writ large, and healthy skepticism in the face of Yet Another Tech Industry Hype Typhoon. Anyway, the burden of proof isn't on skeptics, it's on the technology and it's proponents, so let's see some receipts before we agree to squander limited public resources on unproven systems yeah?

>Most critiques of AI are based on some combination of observed failings of the technology

Most critiques of AI are based on experience with the cheapest AI available a year ago, by midwits unable to recognize that AI's performance on the Putnam, IMO and bar exam makes it far smarter than they are by almost every metric that was traditionally used to measure intelligence.

> Most critiques of AI are based on experience with the cheapest AI available a year ago, by midwits

You don't even need to use AI at all to have valid critiques of it

Plenty of other people are showing its flaws daily by replacing their entire personalities with AI slop

Oh it can do some impressive stuff sure. It is still bad for society

To make my earlier critique of your argument clearer, some applications of AI might be bad for society, but it does not follow that the tutoring application is also bad for society.
> You don't even need to use AI at all to have valid critiques of it

You cannot rationally criticize something if you have no up-to-date knowledge about it.