[akudha]

All this discussion makes me wonder - is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc).

It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? I don't know for sure.

[malshe]

I know the US gets a lot of flak due to the current administration's policies and actions. Despite that it is still the best country for immigrants with the caveat 'Assuming the immigrant makes every effort to integrate (learning the language, respecting local people/customs etc)'

[throw-the-towel]

More generally, I'd say the Americas are a step above Europe when it comes to ease of integration. In South America, people often assumed I'm immigrating, and made it clear I was welcome. In Europe, where I actually tried to immigrate, I'm treated as just a long-staying tourist. (Not blaming anyone here, they can run their countries however I want, but it's just silly to expect that people who have choice would come to Europe.)

[throw-the-towel]

s/however I want/however they want/; that was a really silly typo.

[rdbl27]

Yes. The United States.

Despite the whirlwind of media to the contrary, the US is very welcoming to foreigners who follow the laws (that is, don't enter illegally) and make an effort to integrate by learning the language and customs.

Much more than any other country on Earth.

[theLiminator]

> Much more than any other country on Earth.

What about Canada?

[zdragnar]

Actually immigrating to Canada is quite a bit harder, from what I've heard.

[sefrost]

Immigrating to Canada was a breeze for decades until the last 2-3 years when they started to reduce immigration numbers in response to citizen concerns.

[suddenlybananas]

Have you watched the news in the past couple of years?

[throw-the-towel]

They literally mentioned that they did.

[throwaway27448]

In practice, even the Trump administration is far less hostile to immigration than their rhetoric would betray.

[g8oz]

ICE agents are arresting people when they show up for green card interviews.

[rdbl27]

ICE agents arrest _people who committed crimes_ at green card interviews (including "entering the country illegally," which is a crime.)

As I said, the United States is very welcoming to foreigners who are willing to follow the laws.

[throwaway27448]

> people who committed crimes

Or who simply e.g. violate NSPM-7. They aren't exactly operating within the bounds of statute themselves.

[persedes]

Eh it's not as black and white as you make it look. Colleague of mine is in ICE detention, because ICE acted on courts being held up in appeals so they can ignore his ongoing asylum case and deport him back to Russia. He followed the rules, had a work permit and everything, but did not matter in the end.

The green card interview snatching is also messed up, if your existing visa expired, while you were being processed, USCIS was understanding and it did not affect your application. (Processing time is slow, so that can happen). Now it's if your visa ever expires your Freiwild for ICE. They're technically not wrong with this, but they're essentially throwing the book at people getting a visum legally too.

[inigyou]

So you show up to become a legal immigrant and you are arrested for not being a legal immigrant yet?

Remind me how they support legal immigration?

[throwaway27448]

That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. They aren't going to do anything that might depress the economy—it's just a sufficient cruelty to satisfy their base.

[inigyou]

They closed the strait of Hormuz

[NostraDavid]

> It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general

Not the concept itself, but the insane numbers. Even South Africa is having "anti-migrant" protests (by the _black_ population; important detail, due to history).

Having 1-2% of your population come in as migrants* is pretty nuts; no negative migration afterwards; number only goes up. I cannot see how this is going to end well in the long run.

*: This is for the Netherlands, for the last 5 years since 2024 (that's the latest numbers I got from our Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS)). That is _just_ economic migration. It's insane. I made some visualizations: https://tbataafschebroederschap.nl/projects/autochtoonse-ned...

[graemep]

Lots of people want to migrate from one country to another, so they clearly think their own lives would be improved (bar a few doing it altruistically).

As for including the locals lives, how? You might be bringing skills they need, or money. Do you mean purely socially? That is very subjective.

I think the media exaggerate the hostility. IMO most of the hostility here in the UK is aimed at 1) illegal immigrants and asylum seekers and 2) Muslims. There is also rising hostility to Jews, but usually from an entirely different group to those hostile to Muslims.

[haritha-j]

Because it’s quite difficult to tell whether someone is in the UK illegally just by looking at them, I imagine some of that hostility isn’t very well contained.

[graemep]

Hard to know because its very rarely overt IRL and social media does not give you a good sample.

[akudha]

Do you mean purely socially? That is very subjective

True. I remember walking the streets of NYC with a friend. We played a game, if we hear anyone talking, we'd try and identify the language. In less than 20 minutes, I think we counted like 10, and they were only the ones we were sure of. That level of diversity is possible only with immigration.

Some people might be good with diversity. Some people might hate it. Immigration is a complex, nuanced topic. Personally, I am in the camp of letting people move around freely (as long as they are not doing crime and are being respectful to locals). This is 2026, we can fly from one corner of the world to another in 24 hours. We are more dependent on each other than ever - so why not let people move freely too?

But I also realize some people might not want immigrants, there are people who don't even want tourists (and tourist money)

[smithoc]

> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy?

The United States.

> It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media?

The world is turning hostile to immigration because the media (and social media sites) highlight and repeat the bad anecdotes, while barely mentioning the actual data showing positive outcomes.

[noosphr]

People are turning on immigrants because the pie has been shrinking for decades.

[suburban_strike]

What data suggests there is a positive outcome for the first world in integrating with the third world? Because my data suggests we're enthusiastically recreating the conditions that led to the Yugoslav civil wars.

And even you know it; I saw your other comment before you deleted it. You are well aware that there is a tipping point, and expressed disappointment that natives are resistant to the path that leads to it. It's like you want there to be ethnic violence.

[bulbar]

At least in Germany, we are in dire need of skilled workers of different kind.

Your argument seems weird, where exactly will the civil war happen, US, Europe, EU, both?

[eunos]

Yea but the visa law is horrendous tho. 60 days hard deadline if unemployed, CBP invalidating H1B for reasons, can't return if you got laid off out of country, and whatever Trump did recently that made people worry to fly outside the country. Not to mention the brutal green card line.

[vladms]

For better their lives as well as the locals' life I think it is most of them. For feeling rewarded or fulfilled for doing that, I think depends on both the person and the country, but probably quite rare.

I tried two countries so far (>5 year in both) and there were pluses and minuses in each. Which are different to the pluses and minuses in my home country.

I think that one will (generally) evolve and adopt some habits of the country you immigrated too, while giving up some habits you had before. The result? You might be a more complete person (because you become aware of the habits, and can choose to some extent) but on the other hand you will not belong anywhere any-more (you will not adopt some stupid habits of the new country, but you did gave up some stupid habits that you had).

[bulbar]

It's the impression you get from media.

Get born outside the western world and migrate to Europe as a skilled worker and your live increases significantly as well as that it your family. Same goes for the society you live in.

[enevid009]

This.

[voidhorse]

> It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? I don't know for sure.

I view it as growing pains. We inhabit a highly interdependent and interconnected world now, the economy is extremely global. Nation states as the primary governance model simply don't make sense anymore, and the world needs to adjust and find a new political organizing principle. The modern concept of nation state is itself a historical concept, it really arose approx. 18th cen. has worked ok for a while and now we need some new governance concept that is a better fit for our highly interconnected and global world.

What we are seeing now are reactions against what in my view is the inevitable decline of nation based organization and the formation of something else. The "old system" is acting out in an attempt to save itself, in a refusal to evolve. People don't like change. The writing is on the wall though. The degree to which every nation is now completely entangled with every other makes nations themselves as an operational concept inefficient and untenable.

[mangodrunk]

Why don’t people migrate to developing countries instead to help them directly. This form of migration makes it appear that Western countries are better.

There is a big problem with mass migration and people entering a country with antithetical values and beliefs.

[noisecancel]

+1

[sixothree]

We aren't really talking about this loneliness epidemic that is not contained to any one particular country. I can imagine how difficult it is to move to a new place now, no matter where it is, and especially in the future if the trend continues.

[throw-the-towel]

That really depends on what country are they coming from, and how established they are in life. As an extreme example, someone from Sudan would benefit by moving out, if only by being in a stable place that's not being ravaged by civil war.

[throwaway27448]

Immigration does generally improve the economy, but it doesn't happen overnight, and this is an incredibly easy anxiety to exploit for short-term political gain.

[anothereng]

pretty much anywhere in America (the continent) you're welcome to migrate to. We don't care as long as you respect the locals and the local culture

[libertine]

There's been a lot of pressure to break the EU for quite some time, and now even the US is also aiming for this.

It's a lot of misinformation and funding from too many countries, for a long time.

What's impressive is how much this tension had actually been holding on, which goes to show that education actually plays an important role when dealing with misinformation.

Sadly it was successful in the UK.

[joe_mamba]

> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy?

Not really anymore. All the good ponds have all been fished out by now.

Housing is in short supply in every livable city in the western world and the job market is tight right now, so if you move there now, you're one, increasing labor competition for the locals, and two, rising housing prices for the locals. THe only locals happy with this arrangement are the corporation hiring you and the landlord taking your money.

The world has min-maxed itself into oblivion that it's already reached saturation point. We're way passed the balance point, everything is fucked, there's no magic place on the planet where things are nice for everyone.

[smithoc]

It's too bad that no immigrants work in construction to build more housing. If we could import lower cost laborers to build houses, that would greatly improve the housing affordability problem, but sadly, every time I go past a construction site, all I see are white guys whose great-great-great grandparents came over on the Mayflower.

[suburban_strike]

> every time I go past a construction site, all I see are white guys whose great-great-great grandparents came over on the Mayflower.

If you're going to lie to people, at least come up with more-plausible propaganda than the talking points you people came up with in the 1920s.

The only WASPs anybody's going to find on a construction site in 2026 are the ones with wings and stingers.

[joe_mamba]

Your parent was trying to be sarcastic that native WASPS are above working on construction sites and only migrants can do that.

Here in the EU where I was talking about, it's different, it's mostly European whites on construction sites, not WASPS, but intra-European migrants from balkans and eastern europe.

So here we literally gained nothing from the mass migration from africa and middle east except more housing demand instead of more skilled labor for building houses, contrary to the pro-migration propaganda.

[throw-the-towel]

This is spot on. Even if the opportunity is still better in the West than elsewhere, the trend is to the worse. It feels much more rewarding to have a less tasty slice of a growing pie, than a tastier slice that's shrinking. (And the others behave with less toxicity, to boot.)