[esperent]

I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though.

However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.

[weberer]

It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.

[anal_reactor]

I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.

[prmoustache]

I own a Piaggio 300cc Scooter, not called a Vespa because it is one of the big wheel variants (similar to Honda SH line) but it has the same engine as the Vespa 300GTS.

It is not at all noisy unless I rev it high, which I try to avoid doing most of the time. It is not loud like for instance a Yamaha T-Max, not helped by it attracting mostly complete retards.

Obviously there are always dumb people mounting akrapovic or other noisy aftermarket exhausts on any bike brand but it is also the same with cars.

[zakki]

Hell is exist but it is not full of mopeds.

[aziaziazi]

Of course, mopeds only runs on the vestibule, then lucifer and its friends wait on bigger and noiser bikes.

[mulmen]

Vespas aren’t mopeds.

[bootlooped]

For better or worse, probably worse, the definitions of both "moped" and "scooter" vary from person to person or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. "Moped" is often used to describe a light motorcycle.

[dmd]

Language changes. I guarantee if you ask 100 people to draw a moped, maybe 2 will put pedals on it.

[porknubbins]

Ive been riding scooters and motorcycles for 20 years and I to this day I have no clear image of what a moped might be. I always imagined a theoretical spectrum from pure bicycle -> gas motor equipped bicycle-> moped -> pure motorcycle, but have never encountered a moped.

[prmoustache]

Scooter do not have pedals, mopeds do, hence the name.

The Piaggio Vespa is a scooter. The Piaggio Ciao is a moped.

[mulmen]

No. Mopeds have pedals. That’s the “ped” part of motor pedal.

[bootlooped]

I'm not disagreeing with the origin of the word, I'm just saying it's expanded and changed.

Have you ever "shipped" something that at no point in its journey was carried on a floating vessel? Do you correct people when they say they're shipping something by ground or air?

[jjtheblunt]

the elettrica motors are (obviously) electric, too, and for some models come in a couple versions.

https://www.vespa.com/en_EN/electric-range/

[realo]

Yes, but still terrible, pollution wise.

Electric Vespa anyone?

[esperent]

They did make one for a while but it's terrible. €5000 with similar specs to a €1000 bike from other companies.

[FinnKuhn]

They still make some models in an electric variant.

[asveikau]

I haven't been following the latest developments but about 10 years ago they launched "Vespa elettrica". It was very expensive and low powered at launch. Not sure if they've iterated on it since.

I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better

[joshuaheard]

Vespas have been around for so long because it is such a great design. They now make an electric Vespa.

https://storeusa.vespa.com/elettrica/vespa-elettrica-45-mph....

[boomskats]

That og elettrica has been all but cancelled in most markets. It was grossly underpowered and overpriced, which is a shame. IIRC they relaunched it as the primavera elettrica, without all the green/yellow bits, but it's still the same bike.

[MomsAVoxell]

Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.

Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)

And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.

Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..

[esperent]

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

[jcims]

What a goofy comment.

Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.

Not the driver's fault.

[bcraven]

UK law says if you hit someone, it's your fault.

If you're going fast enough in an area where someone could step out, and someone does step out, if you hit them then you were clearly going too fast.

[bee_rider]

This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.

It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.

[MomsAVoxell]

You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.

My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.

My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.

[rconti]

It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.

Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.

But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.

[MomsAVoxell]

It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.

[skeletal88]

You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path

[MomsAVoxell]

You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding arrogant, ignorant pedestrians all my life.

The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.

If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.

[tuvix]

I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop

[MomsAVoxell]

In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.

As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.

[amarcheschi]

i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore

[furyofantares]

The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.

[MomsAVoxell]

“Pedestrians are dumb” is the mantra that keeps me, and them, alive. I utter it many times a day ..

[kstrauser]

The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.

[spankibalt]

> And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.

Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.

[tuan]

Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.

[MomsAVoxell]

My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimpy, and the Viennese will scream extra bloody murder at you for honks as well, especially if they’re the ones standing foolishly in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..

I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk to make it beefier (although honk usage can get you a traffic ticket in Vienna), but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..

[moeffju]

You should join our unu Community Discord, we have someone who upgraded to what is basically two fog horns at ungodly decibel levels ... but we can also reactivate the builtin speaker and add the spaceship noise maybe?

[MomsAVoxell]

Great ideas on all accounts, thanks for the tip about the Discord, I’ll look that up soon .. need to get my Unu classic back on the road, has been idle for 2 years after quite some action since it was released .. lovely moped, all things considered, for the city…

[esperent]

I also live in Vietnam and that's utter bs, sorry. People in Vietnam are generally chill and lovely, until they get onto the road where they become selfish, entitled, noisy assholes. They honk to avoid having to look, wait, or slow down. Trying to be a pedestrian in Vietnam is extremely stressful, nobody will ever give you right of way even on a sidewalk, instead they'll just drive directly at you while honking until you get out of the way.

[odiroot]

TBQH from my experience people in Vienna are quite oblivious to single-track vehicles. No idea why but even cycling here is often scary.

[MomsAVoxell]

Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.

Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.

In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.

[odiroot]

> Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane

Well yeah but they're another league of recklessness. Especially the food delivery people.

I was talking more about an average bicycle commuter.

[lostlogin]

I found the tram tracks more alarming than the pedestrians, but I was on those hire bikes which top out at about 25kmh and are like riding a brick.

[GenerWork]

Are you thinking of older Vespas? There's a few modern ones near me and they've never struck me as overly noisy.

[flkiwi]

A guy across the street from me has a new one. It's loud as hell, but this guy is the type to remove his muffler to make whatever car he has this week sound "cooler". I'm not ready to blame the scooter yet.

[rwyinuse]

Yeah, even most two stroke mopeds are tolerable in terms of sound level with stock parts. At least where I'm from youth often replace the exhaust pipe with larger one that maybe brings slight power boost, and a massive increase in noise level. Unfortunately police doesn't really care although it's technically illegal, and these hooligans get to ruin other people's sleep.

[ex-aws-dude]

Yeah I have no idea what they are talking about

I have a 150 4-stroke that is fuel injected and it’s way quieter than any motorcycle and has very little exhaust smell

[dghlsakjg]

The older ones or modified ones.

My parents have a newer 50cc and even at full speed it doesn’t make more noise than any car.

I had an old p200e 2-stroke Vespa and it was indeed smoky and loud. And also way more fun and useful.

[esperent]

I'm talking about the Vespas I actually experience on a daily basis. I don't know if they're new or old, but I can assure you that they are loud and smoky.

[boomskats]

I have a couple of Vespas - a '98 T5 and a 2011 PX Unità d'Italia - and honestly my favourite safety feature is the noise they _can_ make. Modern Vespas don’t sound like the old ones from the factory anymore, but the retro scene is strong, so a lot of tuning kits bring back that classic buzz.

In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.

I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.

So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.

[bananamogul]

Solving the safety problem by making it loud does not seem like a great solution.

Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.

[toast0]

Should license movement noises from Hanna-Barbera. Jetsons or Flintstones are good, but there's probably other options.

[boomskats]

It's not a great solution but it's the best one I've got, and it's still more ecological than driving the (electric) car for the same one-person trip. And audible != loud.

Anyway, don't most places legally require nearly silent electric vehicles to emit some kind of artificial noise?

[joe_mamba]

>And audible != loud

People who sleep with the windows opened in summer at night(most Europeans) facing the street where vespas are driving would beg to differ.

Then there's the separate issue that some(many?) owners either rev their vespas for more power(maybe due to worn belt) or they just fuck with their exhaust to squeeze more power at the expense of noise.

Either way, there's plenty of good reasons people find mopeds/scooter overall far more noisy and annoying than cars.

[boomskats]

I agree with all of those points, and none of them are relevant to what I was talking about.

[jb1991]

I have to agree that the amount of pollution these things put out is really a dealbreaker in modern times, in my opinion. They really smell up a street when they go by, it’s so noticeable after having mainly electric cars and bicycles going by.

[lostlogin]

You’re likely thinking of the old 2 strokes - the newer ones are much of a muchness with other 4 stroke motos.

[jb1991]

What I mean is, all these gasoline powered scooters are terrible.

[nsbk]

My brother and I restored my dad’s ‘64 Vespa 150S and the thing is extremely loud!

It is very smelly as well as it’s a two stroke engine, but I don’t mind that at all. Quite the opposite

[lavela]

Agree, as long as you don't use it around other people it's probably fine.

[lostlogin]

A friend races Vespas. They are apparently well suited to tuning (perhaps being poorly tuned from factory?), and power is much increased. The noise seems to go up vastly.

He has to re-weld the frame from time to time due to the cracks that form.

[bborud]

This is a really weird take that does not resemble any modern Vespa. Are you sure you looked at a modern Vespa and not some old 2 stroke thing?

Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.

As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.

Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.

[bobthepanda]

admittedly i have not used a vespa myself, only seen. but an e bike is a pretty good mode of motor transport.

[dv_dt]

Ive seen someone make electric retrofit kits for vespas which sounds great to me

[amarcheschi]

There literally are og electric vespas, I don't think they're great value for money but I guess people like the way they look. Then again, I'd rather see more of them in the city than loud motorcycles https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/primavera/primavera-elet...

[lostlogin]

The Sprint also does an electric model too when I look around that site.

https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/sprint/sprint-s-elettric...

[filoleg]

The lack of noise and smoke is a big one.

I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).

But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.

Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.

I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).

[lostlogin]

> I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving

Having followed a similar path, the lifestyle upgrade of moving to an EV, then abandoning car dependant commuting use is great.

In the pouring rain and howling wind I do occasionally wonder what I’m doing, but sitting in a traffic jam is awful.

> And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.

Add to this: car stereos and the craze for adding (stolen) school PA speakers for playing obnoxiously loud music.

[jimbokun]

Could they just shove an electric motor into a beautiful Vespa?

[odiroot]

They're noisy, underpowered and way too expensive (also in maintenance). No wonder most of developing world rides Hondas.