[MomsAVoxell]

Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.

Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)

And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.

Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..

[esperent]

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

[jcims]

What a goofy comment.

Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.

Not the driver's fault.

[bcraven]

UK law says if you hit someone, it's your fault.

If you're going fast enough in an area where someone could step out, and someone does step out, if you hit them then you were clearly going too fast.

[bee_rider]

This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.

It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.

[MomsAVoxell]

You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.

My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.

My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.

[rconti]

It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.

Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.

But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.

[MomsAVoxell]

It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.

[skeletal88]

You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path

[MomsAVoxell]

You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding arrogant, ignorant pedestrians all my life.

The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.

If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.

[tuvix]

I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop

[MomsAVoxell]

In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.

As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.

[amarcheschi]

i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore

[furyofantares]

The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.

[MomsAVoxell]

“Pedestrians are dumb” is the mantra that keeps me, and them, alive. I utter it many times a day ..

[kstrauser]

The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.

[spankibalt]

> And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.

Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.

[tuan]

Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.

[MomsAVoxell]

My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimpy, and the Viennese will scream extra bloody murder at you for honks as well, especially if they’re the ones standing foolishly in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..

I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk to make it beefier (although honk usage can get you a traffic ticket in Vienna), but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..

[moeffju]

You should join our unu Community Discord, we have someone who upgraded to what is basically two fog horns at ungodly decibel levels ... but we can also reactivate the builtin speaker and add the spaceship noise maybe?

[MomsAVoxell]

Great ideas on all accounts, thanks for the tip about the Discord, I’ll look that up soon .. need to get my Unu classic back on the road, has been idle for 2 years after quite some action since it was released .. lovely moped, all things considered, for the city…

[esperent]

I also live in Vietnam and that's utter bs, sorry. People in Vietnam are generally chill and lovely, until they get onto the road where they become selfish, entitled, noisy assholes. They honk to avoid having to look, wait, or slow down. Trying to be a pedestrian in Vietnam is extremely stressful, nobody will ever give you right of way even on a sidewalk, instead they'll just drive directly at you while honking until you get out of the way.

[odiroot]

TBQH from my experience people in Vienna are quite oblivious to single-track vehicles. No idea why but even cycling here is often scary.

[MomsAVoxell]

Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.

Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.

In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.

[odiroot]

> Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane

Well yeah but they're another league of recklessness. Especially the food delivery people.

I was talking more about an average bicycle commuter.

[lostlogin]

I found the tram tracks more alarming than the pedestrians, but I was on those hire bikes which top out at about 25kmh and are like riding a brick.