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by milanito1985 26 days ago
Spain is really going in the right direction, I wonder why no one countries inspire from what they are doing
7 comments

I do agree blocking Palantir is a good move but the Spanish government is doing it for the wrong reason. Spain is storing all sort of data on Chinese servers, including their Intelligence, and Judicial wiretaps.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-huawei-contract-judici...

That is rather disturbing but this had me lol:

> Spain is “making a big mistake,” said Bart Groothuis [...] “Spain is now dependent on the country with the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program directed against us.”

I highly doubt he's naive enough to believe the "against us" qualifier exempts the operator of the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program ever.

espionage is a lot less bad than conquering by force.

the US properly fucked up by very publicly declaring intent to conquer greenland and canada

Right now you either give it to China or to the US.

China is not publicly threatening to invade the EU.

I think the EU needs to produce this themselves but right now they don’t and they don’t have any large, trustworthy allies.

so.. hand over your data to china to spite orange man. yes excellent move.
It’s not spite it’s just logical - US/Israel are a known bad actor.

China is also probably bad, but currently there’s no evidence they’re as bad as US/Israel

In addition to the more well-known stuff, China DDoSed Github because they were mad that two projects let Chinese citizens read non-propaganda news in 2015.
China is supplying Russia, which is attacking an European country.

Thus, from my POV that sentiment is BS.

China is an adversary in a panda costume.

And Israel is attacking various countries - okay not in quite in Europe, but pretty close to the southeastern EU member states.

So you have one country which is in a very loose alliance with a country that's attacking a country around the periphery of the EU, and another country that's joined at the hip with a country that's attacking another country around the periphery of the EU, just slightly further away.

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the US

China is allowing their companies to trade with Russia. That's all. China has not blocked trade with Ukraine either.

China also stands to benefit long term with a Russia that continues fighting and weakening itself.

China is also supplying Ukraine and the countries that supply Ukraine.

Maybe you meant North Korea?

Germany is also supplying Russia, should Spain exit the mostly-Germany-controlled EU?
china has no political agenda outside of their country (that includes taiwan from their pov). all they care about is staying in power at home and keeping up the economy. they only sell to russia because its a good way to make money.

belt and road, deals with african dictators, selling cars and phones to europe, temu and alibaba, open source llms, all of that is for higher tax revenue. a lot of chinese companies are part state owned so thats another way it directly benefits the government.

even the illegal police stations only exist to make sure overseas chinese communities dont support opposition movements back home. is it a good thing? definitely not, but its also not a threat to the host country as a whole.

the spying they do is either economic espionage thats good for the world (trade secrets should not exist, thats what patents are for) or good old state on state action like everybody else is doing. i bet russia and america each have more spies in europe than china.

except for all of the hacking and industrial espionage, e.g. Salt Typhoon

let's be clear: MAGA is doing everything they can per Dugan-esque playbooks on how to destroy US-EU relations, but don't pretend for a second that China is some magical bastion of human rights or fair, competitive practices.

You are literally wrong, the data is stored in Spain on their servers and managed by their government. The risk as stated by EU and US is allowing Chineese nationals to *enter* the data storage facilities (direct quote from the article you shared).

Yes, it's still bad but they are not as stupid to just have their servers located in China for this.

The Spanish public overwhelmingly trusts China over the US, so from their perspective, this is not necessarily a bad move.

Obviously, the best move would be to keep the data in Europe instead.

It makes no sense at all to trust either.
>Obviously, the best move would be to keep the data in Europe instead.

While 80% of Europe is subservient to the US?

Or just keep it in Spain? It's not exactly a developing nation. Can they simply not build a server and find people willing to take care of it?

Ghana can host their own IT infra. Why not Spain?

As opposed to what? American servers with Isreali backdoors?
How about Spanish servers?

I will never understand this helplessness that comes from these European countries. They are choosing to be dependent on foreign powers.

It's expensive to home-grow your own solutions and if you try transitioning too many services at once the cost will be outrageous and you'll probably open other security holes. I am glad Spain is taking this step and I hope they continue this trend - but outright refusing to use any software built abroad requires a massive investment in domestic tech. That investment would likely pay economic dividends but it is a cost that needs to be measured against other investments Spain needs to make and in Spain's case resilience against global warming is especially important.
You know, we all thought you were allies. But you tricked us well.
> Fool me once, shame on... shame on you

— George Bush, 2002

The original saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I think an intellectually honest take is that it's advantageous and prudent to depend on allies and neighbors; leveraging each party's strengths for efficiencies over strategic autonomy. This trade-off is commonly debated with depending on US military hardware in favor of EU military hardware (e.g. France's long standing position for EU strategic autonomy), or vendor lock-in with AWS vs cloud-independent offerings.

The problem is when an ally becomes inconsistent and/or uncooperative; a high stakes version of prisoner's dilemma. At which point do you replace an ally's offerings with more expensive, and often inferior, alternatives? The general populace rarely has the appetite for the short-term economic pain required to achieve long-term strategic independence.

They deliver part of hardware but the data itself is hosted in Spain and operated by the interior ministry.
still not the worst of reasons.

would be better to be on spanish servers, but decoupling from american tech remains a public good, especially if using american tech bans american competitors

If the data is encrypted before the upload I see no problem
Huawei is the complete data custodian. They are the ones doing the encrypting.
Maybe Spain has people on the inside (of Huawei.)
Can’t form a COMINTERN if the US is watching.
So? And other countries are storing their data in the US, not covered by gdpr
At this point, can you tell me one non corrupt government?

At least they are doing stuff for the people

Define doing. The government is completely block from legislating since the coalition parties will not approve any law, only those that can help their separatist movements. The national budget hasn't been renewed since 2023, affecting new projects.

What we have is a corrupt president and party he'll bent on remaining as long as possible to not face the polls

There are two takes here (and I'm impartial because I no longer live in Spain):

- The government lost their trust and should resign. - The coalition parties are sabotaging the government even when none had the majority (even if together they do).

Either way, fuck Palantir

Looks like we’re doing this in the UK soon too.

Edit: not sure what the downvotes are. Burnham literally said he’ll do it today.

indeed, and he has apparently already been walking the walk

>"Burnham did not grant the US tech company any contracts during his nine years as Greater Manchester mayor, and is minded to take the same approach in Downing Street."

But how many did he deny?
I know I’m a conspiracy theorist but I’m looking out for random scandals, random high profile deaths, random infrastructure issues and random large scale accidents.
yeah, well, this is what a socialist president gives you. same as mamdani and his achievements
This seems ridiculously short-sighted and backwards.
Is your assumption that palantir is a good thing?
Sure Palantir has plenty of allegations. But giving same contract to China is insanity.
Politicians and governments like to introduce crap like blacklisting when they have a good excuse to (a target the public agrees with) so that later it's easier for them to use against arbitrary targets.
This prevents palantir being used against people, what are you talking about? How will blacklisting military tech affect you?