[Grimblewald]

So block people, instead of having false positives be secretly fucked over, and having them pay for the pleasure?

Given the hidden model degradation of fable and now this, what makes you think this is where it stops? That's just what we know about and there's clearly a long-standing and deeply rooted malicious intent here.

I've had Claude fuck over clean well documented code-bases for no reason, and there's a good chance this is due to some faulty trigger. Luckily I don't trust these things one bit, and claude only ever runs in an isolated VM, however, I am pissed I am being made to pay for their errors in detection and waste my time fixing things I apparently paid to have fucked up.

That's unacceptable conduct. It's witch-hunting. Punishment and attacks on you for things without real proof. That isn't right.

[Gareth321]

> So block people

To be fair to Anthropic, [they're trying very hard to do that.](https://www.anthropic.com/news/detecting-and-preventing-dist...). The attacks are sophisticated and difficult to detect. I don't accept that if this fails, their only option is to just accept Chinese companies stealing IP.

[frognumber]

They're not "attacks." Anthropic calling them "attacks" doesn't make them attacks. Companies are collecting transcripts of conversations with Anthropic, and giving users a discount to share them.

As many have pointed out, they're collecting data in ways much less aggressive than Anthropic itself about what Anthropic does.

Anthropic doesn't like it, but I don't see this as "Chinese companies stealing IP," any more than if Google tried to ban competitors from seeing how Google Docs or an Android phone behaves, or Ford trying to ban anyone from Toyota from seeing what their car looks like.

Please stop calling them "attacks." It's distillation training. It's looking at what Anthropic does -- as a block box -- and trying to duplicate or beat it. It's how progress happens.

[Gareth321]

Stealing IP is an attack. You might feel that Anthropic should just give away hundreds of billions in IP and capex, but that's not the way the world works, and I don't agree with you. They're taking enormous risk to build these models. They should be fairly compensated.

[frognumber]

What IP is being stolen?

IP is the code and possibly the weights.

No one is stealing IP.

And I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue the AI industry isn't being fairly compensated.

To go further: most people in the world wouldn't feel bad at all if we found a way to slow what's likely the biggest socio-polical-economic change in human history down a bit.

[Grimblewald]

Them strugglig to prevent others from doing what they themsleves do, is my problem to a degree where I must pay for the pleasure to getting sabotaged? Are you fucked in the head? In what world are we "being fair" by claiming that? It takes a problem anthripic has hallucinated, and makes its consequences mine for no reason. Anthropic chose to create both this problem and it's consequences, why am I wearing it?

If I decide I dislike words starting in S, despite myself being a prolific user of words starting in S, and smack some child who'd never even heard the rules, simply for saying "sorry", simply because some people say "shit" and it makes me mad, despite it being my most used word, are we "being fair" by saying "to be fair, managing curse words is a difficult problem"

no right? Insane take.

[Gareth321]

I don't think they have been caught distilling OpenAI's models. Do you have a link?

[syndacks]

So don’t use it!

[Grimblewald]

Correct, and I've stopped. I've moved to deepseek instead, equally capable and not as morally bankrupt as either OAI or anthropic.

[AlexeyBelov]

It's like "if you don't like it here just move". Not really good advice, doesn't fix anything at all.

[isomorphic_duck]

> I've had Claude fuck over clean well documented code-bases for no reason

How exactly do you define "fucking over", and why do you suspect this "fucking" was done as a result of a faulty trigger as opposed to the inability of LLMs to write maintainable, extensible code?

"Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity."

[Grimblewald]

Changing well documented requirememts and functioning code to do subtly incorrect things, over multiple areas, for no reason. When confronted you get the usual, "youre right to push back, there was no reason to touch that and it did make everything worse"

Why do I suspect faulty trigger? The things wrecked weren't wrecked by even much less capable, including local models, while reverting everything to pre fucking up and asking claude again led to similar results. Once on whatever shitlist that was, claude also failed tasks it previously aced when given the exact same prompt and project files. I attributed it to opus 4.6 being a downgrade which people always pushed back on, claiming they thought it was better, but i had empirical proof, it couldnt do tasks 4.5- could do quite well. Now all of this? It's clicking all of a sudden that its quite plausible i got flagged somehow and ended up with an intentionally degraded service.

So, claude is off table for me these days, and deepseek gets very deep git commit read-throughs with every file even being read being carefully monitored. This obviously ruins the "agentic" promise, but the reality is we cannot trust these fucks (being the companies). The irony is deepseek now queries claude on problems its stuck on for input via openrouter, with mild success (the gap really isnt all that big, if its even there), before escalating to me for input on direction on solving a given problem. So now chinese models get more claude training data, not less. In fact, they get training data on frontier ML stacks and problems. Anthropic did that to themselves.