[bambax]

The EU should cut all ties with the US, tax US products and impose costly (and difficult to get) visas to American citizens wanting to visit.

It won't do any of this because it has no balls and no vision.

We're doomed and it's our fault.

[CalRobert]

Alternately, it should roll out the red carpet for American entrepreneurs, scientists, and talent who want to try moving here and having a go of things in Europe. The Dutch American Friendship Treaty accidentally enables this and has become quite popular, but is only for one country.

[expedition32]

I am not too sure about that. Every US expat is a sleeper agent waiting for the CIA to call. Their loyalty will always be to America and unquestionable loyalty to the White House.

[CalRobert]

Well I suppose Europe can start its own manzanar if it comes to it.

Emigrants aren’t really known for their patriotism.

[joe_mamba]

And then what's gonna happen to the (already fucked)Dutch housing market?

> it should roll out the red carpet for American entrepreneurs, scientists, and talent who want to try moving here and having a go of things in Europe

Only if it's bidirectional. If Americans can gentrify me out of the EU housing market with their higher purchasing power, then I should also have access to their labor market for those six figure wages to compensate. Tit for tat, as freedom of movement works in the EU. Otherwise it's just monetary colonialism. Imagine if Swedes were allowed to move to Spain but spaniards would not allowed to go work in Sweden.

[kakacik]

Maybe build more? I know folks who already own properties hate this little trick, but its pretty effective in solving this. Maybe you've not heard but there is more people than 50-100 years ago when many buildings were built, and disproportionally more in bigger cities where most well paid work is.

There are other factors like zoning and other laws, mentality of given population etc but gist is above.

[joe_mamba]

>Maybe build more?

Not up to me. I'm not a politician. And like you said, property owners hate it and they are majority.

But it's just as easy to oppose gentrification from wealthy Americans without equal terms in exchange. It has the same effect on supply/demand.

Otherwise, I'll be forced to vote for the most radical and vindictive politicians out of spite to see the world burn if I see my government prioritizes wealthy foreigners and throws me under the bus.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

[CalRobert]

Wow, if only it were possible to build new homes. Might mean less parking though!

Anyway, the number of Europeans starting companies in California suggests something is deeply wrong in Europe.

Incidentally DAFT is nominally bidirectional, but as usual the US makes it more onerous. There’s a similar agreement with NL and Japan, actually.

[joe_mamba]

>Wow, if only it were possible to build new homes.

Can we do it in your back yard?

I like how people assume every country has unlimited free space for housing and all you have to do is just build more.

[CalRobert]

Yes! Please yes! I’d love to see more homes built in my town near Utrecht and have supported plans to do so. It’s idyllic and we should try to help more people who want to live like this be able to do so.

Ironically my childhood home in California has a Dutch family living in it. Small world.

[joe_mamba]

Respect

[danmaz74]

No, we shouldn't act like (stupid) children. We should enact a transition based on what we can do and when. I know that nuanced and complex solutions to complex problems don't fire up voters anywhere, but that's the only way to not shoot our own feet.

[rusk]

> no balls and no vision

Seems to me they’re waiting it out. Everything could change in a presidential election and the European economy wins either way. It is an economic bloc after all.

What you describe would be what’s called “cutting off your nose to spite your face”

[GolfPopper]

The problem with "everything could change in a presidential election" is that offers no stability. No one wants to plan around "maybe the United States goes rabid again in four years".

[dspillett]

> Everything could change in a presidential election

Not really, not immediately, IMO. And if they could, that would be a problem in itself.

It will take some time to undo what has been done and will still be done in the current term. To change things back quickly would take both someone despotic on “the other side” willing to force things through with executive orders, and have the general support needed to weather the negative PR associated with that, and (perhaps more importantly) insufficient kick-back getting those orders quickly reverted or watered down. Even if they elect someone, and a team around them, who is willing and able to work that way, the changes made recently include changes that will make them harder to roll back on. And even if things do get magically fixed in the next term, that would just prove how quickly they could be unfixed again four years later.

[BlueTemplar]

For the worst, you mean ?

The current arrangement has been torpedoed a long time ago already, with the Patriot Act (2001) (though it took many years to understand the extent of it).

[bambax]

> Everything could change in a presidential election

No. It's the US who's a bully, as a country. The Trump administration is the worst so far, sure, but the US has always behaved as if they owned the world.

There is only one way to deal with bullies, and it's not to be nice and hope they forget about you. It's to stand your ground, not give an inch, and reciprocate.

[watwut]

> Everything could change in a presidential election

A lot can change, but not everything. Trump won twice and republican elites are fully behind him. Even if he looses, the same ideologies will continue. It happened twice, it is not a fluke but a permanent property of American politics.

Moreover, constitutional changes supreme court created are structural change. They will be super hard to undone - first they would need to change supreme court composition. The influence of money in American politics will just grow, the structural advantages of conservatives have in voting system will just grow and next conservative president will have even more space for maneuvering. (Non conservative one will likely be stopped by supreme court on some excuse.)

So, basically, outside of change actual constitution which is impossible, it will stay the same at best in the long term.

[rusk]

I agree with everything you have written here, however even in the face of that it makes “economic” sense for the EU to wait it out.

[watwut]

If it means "be strategic and start making necessary long term adjustements without entering useless temporary pissing contests" I agree.

If it means "wait and change nothing long term, hope it will be better" I dont.

[rusk]

I think a lot of European nations have been reevaluating their relationship with the US. Digital sovereignty in particular is a burning topic.

[AndroTux]

They should, but the entire EU economy runs on US clouds. It's hard enough to get new hardware as it is (US hardware btw), so how should the EU, especially today, move to sovereign clouds within the next few years?

I'd argue every single EU business with more than five employees would be impacted by such a decision. Just pulling the plug would be economic suicide.

[bambax]

Yes, just pulling the plug overnight is impossible. But preparing to pull the plug so that it becomes possible is not just sound, it is indispensable, because some day, the plug could be pulled by someone and if we're not prepared, we will be in dire straits indeed.

[hahahaa]

Time to dust off that sampling profiler and make code way more efficient, simple and well architected.

[villish]

Why? You talk as if you've been victimized by America. I completely understand the desire for privacy and digital sovereignty, but you're talking about escalating into a full out economic war with the US. Meanwhile you personally patron American websites (such as this one) and services.

[luke5441]

The main blocker for this was that Trump extended this to the military domain. I.e., tax US hyperscalers and Ukraine does not get US weapons/information anymore. Becoming independent from the US in the military domain will take some work.

[drstewart]

Europeans should cut ties with their own fascist, Russian sympathizers leading the polls first, then worry about Americans.

[dgellow]

We can and should do both at the same time

[kakacik]

some would even say its one broad stroke of brush that somehow ends up covering both

[drstewart]

I agree, Europe taking care of it's shit for once rule solve a lot of problems for America