[coldtea]

>Don't glorify Rome too much. It was a slavery based society that progressed sciences, technology and civilization little from what they inherited from the Mesopotamian's/Greeks.

It progressed civic life, institutions, law, infrastructure, and other things, a lot. Modern law is a heavy percentage ancient roman law in basis.

Slavery-based society doesn't say much for 2 millenia ago. Most where. The US had slavery until less than 2 centuries, and Jim Crow and other such things until less than a century. And still has things like forced prison labor, so let's cut the Romans some fucking slack.

[Shitty-kitty]

Slavery was legal in most society's 2 millennia ago but most society's were not built to be depended on slavery the way it was in Sparta, Rome and the American South.

[coldtea]

They swept it under the carpet, keeping the benefits, but keeping it a side part of their economy. Kind of like a modern country depending on unprotected labor and even child labor in the third world for its minerals or even for its Nikes.

And a lot the later 19th-20th century "englightened" countries that didn't have explicit slavery in their midst, have enslaved and exploited whole countries as colonies.

[WalterBright]

> forced prison labor

I'd rather work than be in a cell.

[oersted]

If it is forced it is not what you would rather do.

[coldtea]

I'd rather have a civilized prison system with human conditions, instead of an medieval revenge, profiteering, racism and exclusion, a prison-labor complex, and the death penalty - all created, ran, and cheered by bigoted Old Testament-types of human scum.

Especially if I get far far worse crime outcomes than countries with much healthier prison systems.

But, hey, that's just me.

[WalterBright]

I'd be content with a prison system that keeps the criminals away from victimizing more people.

[paulryanrogers]

Humane prisons aren't incompatible with public safety from violent offenders.

[coldtea]

If anything, those countries have so much better outcomes, that it's not even funny...

[coldtea]

People say that in support of the current us system that achieves the opposite, getting far worse outcomes.

Probably because what they really want is not safety or justice or rehabilitation, but retribution, revenge, and a non-criminal way to express their sadistic tendencies on some group, and since that group is prisoners anyway, so few care, even better.

[FergusArgyll]

You should read a day in the life of ivan denisovich. In my understanding, the whole book is making your point