[jacobgold]

Some unc perspective: I paid ~$6,000 in inflation-adjusted dollars for a computer in 1996. Today, I can get the same power in a $6 single board computer. A powerful modern mini PC starts at ~$600.

However painful these price hikes are, and they are painful, it is worth remembering that computing has become incredibly ubiquitous and cheap.

[mysterydip]

The computing power available today is such a double-edged sword. We can do so much more so much faster, but then we (including myself in this) waste so many cycles on abstractions and frameworks and layers of libraries to make our development jobs easier.

[j1elo]

If the absurd memory prices might have some positive outcome, it will be consumers demanding that all their basic pack of apps are able to run on 16 and even 8 GB of RAM, by means of avoiding those that hog their machines. And consequently (hopefully), developers and their managers being incentivized by market forces to have a modicum of care for performance and not wasting bytes. Dreaming is free...

All Electron devs, let's go back to native-er toolkits! Qt and Slint are already here for proper FOSS apps, while a new generation of research and development on the field of efficient GUI toolkits would benefit us all so much.

[tyre]

I don't think your average consumer has any idea how memory works, which apps are using it, or what a "reasonable" consumption is for a given task.

If things don't work, they will blame the computer. Developers will check and see that their electron app is only using 5GB of memory. They will test on 32GB memory M5 MBPs. Complaints to support will lead to recommendations to kill other apps.

What would make change is if MacOS killed processes above a certain limit, which obviously it would never (and should never) do.

[JumpCrisscross]

> If things don't work, they will blame the computer

Or the single app that slows it down.

[jliptzin]

RAM prices won’t stay like this forever. If demand keeps up, suppliers will just start producing more.

[dofm]

To be fair to Apple, their best selling laptop runs on the same chip as their best selling phone, so they are rather surprisingly on the forefront of this efficiency in consumer-facing devices.

Not looked at Slint, thanks for the tip. Qt is OK-ish; things seem to improve on the Mac a lot beyond 6.8.

[AlexandrB]

This is very optimistic. I see a future where high hardware prices push more and more stuff to the cloud and consumer hardware becomes largely a thin client. Soon doing anything with a computer will require an internet connection because the "local" portion of software will be an electron UI that makes API calls to a server somewhere to do any "serious" work.

[mbreese]

Don’t worry - the cycle will reverse again at some point and we’ll go back to more powerful local machines.

[jy14898]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_May_(computer_scientist)...

[daishi55]

This is such a reddit take. Yeah electron takes a lot of resources, but there’s also a lot of software that never would’ve been made in the first place if we didn’t have it. It’s not as simple at pointing to (comparatively) inefficient software and saying that’s bad. Software is ubiquitous now and a big part of the reason for that is that frameworks and abstractions made software much easier to create.

I say this as someone who spent all of yesterday optimizing out a function call to save 36 nanoseconds: stop whining about electron.

[frollogaston]

I'm fine with Electron, not so fine with basic websites being so bloated now that even a modern computer lags on them. Those were achievable in the past.

[throw0101d]

> but then we (including myself in this) waste so many cycles on abstractions and frameworks

"what Andy [Grove of Intel] giveth, Bill [Gates] taketh away."

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law

[ac29]

I did my first ESP32 project recently and was amazed you can get a system that starts up Micropython, then a Wifi AP, DNS, and Web Server in a second or two total and uses less than 512kB RAM. And thats with a high level programming language.

[LoganDark]

Shouldn't that all fit into less than 64k?

[baron816]

The tradeoff isn’t dev job easy vs better performance. The abstractions allow devs to build faster or work on things users care about instead of unobservably better performance.

[drnick1]

Oh, you mean those shitty Web UI frameworks with worse performance on modern hardware than native GUI programs from 1995?

Back then devs were not taking shortcuts, it was the C API or bust, and it very much shows how far we have regressed.

[SiempreViernes]

Oh no, the devs back then were for sure taking all the shortcuts they could, there just weren't as many ways to leave problems for the users compute to solve.

[brookst]

C API was a shortcut. Extensive use of C was a sign of a lazy programmer who wouldn't send the time to write in assembly, which was much more efficient and performant.

[AceJohnny2]

> instead of unobservably better performance

That's... quite the choice of words there

[alex7o]

The problem Is when the performance problems becomes observable. Only after a specific scenario like low power mode for example

[SteveNuts]

> instead of unobservably better performance.

It's imperceptible because the hardware has gotten so much faster. This would be like a top fuel dragster the size of a freight train.

The engine is incredibly powerful but the overall performance is hindered by the size of the overall vehicle not being optimized around it.

[AlexandrB]

> work on things users care about

Apparently what users care about is having more whitespace around everything.

[vlan0]

Which is such a capitalist lens to look at things through. Optimizing for a very small window of reality.

It's the same sort of optimization that drives behaviors where corporations feel no need to contribute to open-source projects. The same projects that enabled those very corporations to exist.

[eloisant]

Also it's no longer a toy for hobbyist but a necessary tool to participate in society

[frollogaston]

Yeah, I recently went to the DMV, the only way to even get a place in line was on a phone. Also needed some kind of web browsing device to get basic online-only services.

[35mm]

Yes, when you're used to using the modern web with all its bloat it can be a huge surprise when you build something in C or Rust - everyday computers are actually incredibly powerful.

[jurgenburgen]

Sometimes abstractions make performance better too. We can’t all be experts of everything so using a well-optimized library is a boon.

[thewebguyd]

Even beyond the library scope. I suspect most complaints in this regard are around electron/web tech, but a well developed modern C#/dotnet application is plenty fast for most use cases and you get the productivity of a high level GC language with it. Go has even a smaller footprint.

There's plenty of value in the abstractions. It didn't all start to break down until we collectively decided that javascript + chromium is the only way forward for literally everything.

[nradov]

It's interesting to contrast this with the attitude taken by the FFmpeg open source developers. They still hand write assembly code because performance and power efficiency is so critical that every clock cycle counts.

https://lexfridman.com/ffmpeg-transcript#chapter14_assembly_...

[mensetmanusman]

Something being easier is not a waste, it’s literally the purpose of every technology.

[betaby]

"What Andy Giveth, Bill Taketh Away"

[iririririr]

not even that. you spend most cycles on thing you 1. don't want, 2. don't benefit from, 3. don't even know about.

your phone doesn't even need mention (whatsapp request the full contact list from the OS every minute. nobody knows that. google play service usea your phone as a WiFi scanner etc)

your browser churn proof of work every site you visit. cloudflare now probably waste more power than btc (and they don't save your site from bota, only set the bar at bots-willing-to-pay-to-run-canvas-fingerprints or something)

[koolba]

Anytime inflation comes up and the relative power of computing devices is mentioned, I remember the classic[1] line that you can’t eat an iPad.

Computing is definitely cheaper, but crappy software seems to always seams to step up to the occasion and use up the extra cycles.

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/ipad-price-remark-ge...

[SoftTalker]

I'm still using ~10 year old PCs at both work and home. Running linux, still doing fine.

[drnick1]

I recently liberated a couple of old Intel Mac laptops by installing Linux. These machines were not receiving system updates anymore. Even on the older machine with a dual core CPU and 4GB of RAM, GNOME runs well (XFCE would probably be a better choice to save RAM for programs, though). On the newer T2 machine with 8GB of RAM, GNOME feels basically as snappy as on my modern gaming PC.

[normie3000]

Try Google Meet. I have a similar spec Air, and that's where it falls down :'-(

[thewebguyd]

Yep. My gaming desktop is an old Ryzen 5, 48GB DDR4 RAM and an old nvidia 1660 super. Plays every game I want to play just fine still at 1080p, and even a few modern titles no problem. Most of my library can be played natively at 1440p too with some settings adjustments.

I suspect I can get a good 8-10 more years of use out of it, assuming components don't fail.

[drnick1]

> I suspect I can get a good 8-10 more years of use out of it, assuming components don't fail.

That's rather optimistic with that aging GPU. Upgrading to something like an Intel B580 (a $250 upgrade) would give it a second life however.

[my002]

I mean, surely this depends on what games you want to play. If you're playing mostly indies and retro games, an older desktop will be fine. If you want to play new AAA releases, probably much less so.

[thewebguyd]

Yeah that's pretty much what I play. Newer titles haven't interested me much lately except for a few. THis machine handles Diablo 4, Pragmata, all the elder scrolls titles, cities skylines, satisfactory, etc. just fine. Even managed to get AC:Shadows to run decently using the steam deck preset.

I hadn't considered Intel Arc though, the other comment's recommendation might be a good upgrade path for me without dropping $1k on a new GPU.

[dominicrose]

Compared to current computers, the ones from 10 years ago are not that different, especially with all the software updates, unless you want an edgy graphics card or Apple processor. In terms of durability I guess the battery is the less durable part but the rest should be fine if handled with care

[amlib]

And with modern streaming software like Sunshine/Moonlight you can easily defer high performance tasks to a powerful machine at home. You are truly free to use any device from the last 15 years as a somewhat dumb terminal if you invest some time setting those things up... or even easier if you just need ssh.

[hamburglar]

Same. And my current daily driver laptop cost me $400 9 years ago. You can still do a lot for incredibly cheap.

[LeFantome]

I bought a 2013 MacBook Air for $50 two years ago to take on a backpacking trip. It runs Linux and I use it all the time. I had a video meeting on it this morning.

You run OpenCode with Big Pickle on it with decent performance. So you can even vibe code on it for free.

[bartvk]

Do you use Discord? How much time does it take to start it?

[RankingMember]

Oh boy, that app. I only use it once in a while, and it's slower and more enshittified every time. The last time I opened it, there was now a Verizon ad in the bottom left-hand corner asking me to watch a 30 second video to "win 200 Orbs!", whatever the hell that means.

[nosioptar]

My 2012 thinkpad still works well.

I've got access to a couple newer laptops, but they just dont stack up to the old one.

[snootypoot]

its worth noting that you were much less restricted with this 6k computer in 1996. today we are paying ever more for walled gardens that will eventually become nothing more than a portal to cloud services. we are not returning to a previous position, we are moving to a world where everything will be a thin client.

[platevoltage]

If we are talking specifically about Macs, I remember my Mac in 1996 didn't even have a command line interface.

[cyberlurker]

True but you can also buy a RPI or other cheap computer and do literally whatever you want with it. Those walled gardens and portals serve a purpose for many users who don’t care about being restricted for the benefits that come with it.

[amelius]

Yeah but these computers don't have sota performance by maybe more than a factor of 10. So an unfair comparison.

[AbsurdCensor]

Were you? That $6k Apple in 1996 was just as 'walled garden' as it is now.

[paxys]

You may have equivalent power on that $6 computer but can you run the same applications?

[platevoltage]

I'm sure you can find an equivalent to ClarisWorks or Photoshop 3.0 that works on a Raspberry Pi.

[jacobgold]

In my case, yes, because I used to be a Linux user. I still am, but I used to be too.

Linux with X11 runs on SBCs like the Raspberry Pi Zero, Orange Pi, etc and outputs to a monitor over HDMI.

[breezeTrowel]

1996 was 30 years ago. What about comparing prices from 3 years ago? 2023 vs 2026.

[oceanyblues]

Ordinary people do not buy devices for their computing power, they buy them for their utility. People will look at this and see only a device that delivers the exact same utility as before, but now with higher cost.

[throw0101d]

See perhaps this 1991 Radio Shack ad (from a 2014 article):

    There are 15 electronic gimzo type items on this page, being sold from America’s Technology Store. 13 of the 15 you now always have in your pocket.
   
    So here’s the list of what I’ve replaced with my iPhone.
    
    * All weather personal stereo, [**US**]$11.88. I now use my iPhone with an Otter Box.
    * AM/FM clock radio, $13.88. iPhone.
    * In-Ear Stereo Phones, $7.88. Came with iPhone.
    * Microthin calculator, $4.88. Swipe up on iPhone.
    * Tandy 1000 TL/3, $1599. I actually owned a Tandy 1000, and I used it for games and word processing. I now do most of both of those things on my phone.
    * VHS Camcorder, $799. iPhone.
    * Mobile Cellular Telephone, $199. Obvs.
    * Mobile CB, $49.95. Ad says “You’ll never drive ‘alone’ again!” iPhone.
    * 20-Memory Speed-Dial phone, $29.95.
    * Deluxe Portable CD Player, $159.95. 80 minutes of music, or 80 hours of music? iPhone.
    * 10-Channel Desktop Scanner, $99.55. I still have a scanner, but I have a scanner app, too. iPhone.
    * Easiest-to-Use Phone Answerer, $49.95. iPhone voicemail.
    * Handheld Cassette Tape Recorder, $29.95. I use the Voice Memo app almost daily.
    * BONUS REPLACEMENT: It’s not an item for sale, but at the bottom of the ad, you’re instructed to ‘check your phone book for the Radio Shack Store nearest you.’ Do you even know how to use a phone book?
   
    You’d have spent [US]$3,054.82 in 1991 to buy all the stuff in this ad that you can now do with your phone. 

* https://archive.is/https://www.huffpost.com/entry/radio-shac...

That US$1600 (in 1991) Tandy 1600 runs a 286 CPU and has a 20MB hard drive, and supported 640×200×16 resolution (720×350 mode for monochrome monitors):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000#Tandy_1000_SL_and_T...

[Retric]

A CB radio can’t actually be replaced by a cellphone, the phone doesn’t actually do voicemail that’s a separate service you’re paying for so it works when your phone dies, it’s also listening multiple different phones etc.

But it’s an add, obviously it’s trying to sell you something not actually be accurate.

[echoangle]

Wow, I didn't know that Camcorders were that expensive at the time. That's $2k today according to https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm .

[skydhash]

Replaced yes, but with generally something worse. Enough to get by, just like a swiss knife is enough, but a ful toolbox would be way better. And with the advancement of technology, a current version would be way more palatable.

I have a digital audio player and it’s the size of a matchbox, with removable storage (now with a 512GB catd), and turn on under 10 seconds. And that tape recorder could be replaced with a very small device too. And I still have my casio calculator from college and that’s what I use if I need to if I need to do a series of computations.

[AIorNot]

Well Conversely, in 1996 you, your spouse, your kids, didnt need a pc to live your lives - having a pc or mac was something of a luxury

Today smartphones, laptops and the internet are the base currency of the digital world - theres a reason Apple is so wealthy

[zdragnar]

> having a pc or mac was something of a luxury

Apple products are still luxury items. A cheap phone and a chromebook can replace most of the "base currency" features that you get when you buy Apple.

[amlib]

And if you spent all that money on a single computer there was the expectation of sharing it with the whole family.

[greenleafone7]

I agree. But also back then you could buy a house and support a family with one salary as a trash truck driver. Today we spend years investing in masters and PhD-s to still live with roommates and consider buying food a luxury. Especially after the COVID hikes.

So even though chasing trends and always 'needing to buy' whatever new model Apple pumps out is idiotic, let's also not shill for big corporations.

[throwawaytea]

I come from th blue collar world of the central valley California. Every mechanic, car salesman, construction manager if not worker, owns their own home and has two kids. It's interesting how 60 miles east is a whole new world where you need a crazy fancy job to buy a home.

[Brendinooo]

>we...consider buying food a luxury

We shouldn't! (Well, Americans shouldn't, anyways.) Americans used to spend almost a quarter of our disposable income on food, now it's more like an eighth.

https://reason.com/2025/11/27/thankfully-we-dont-have-to-spe...

[azan_]

> I agree. But also back then you could buy a house and support a family with one salary as a trash truck driver. Today we spend years investing in masters and PhD-s to still live with roommates and consider buying food a luxury. Especially after the COVID hikes.

Are you sure you are not comparing top 10% back in time vs median worker now? Because people make much, much more nowadays in real terms across all deciles.

[joenot443]

Waste and sanitation jobs in Toronto start at $39k and get up to $120k+ if you’re driving the truck and leading a team I would imagine we actually pay our municipal employees proportionally _more_ than we did back then.

[Barrin92]

>But also back then you could buy a house and support a family with one salary as a trash truck driver

you still can. Truck drivers, electricians and a lot of vocational work pays good salaries. The people who are broke with a masters degree chose a degree in something that doesn't pay. Nurses with a masters earn solid six figures. 90% of the time when I met someone with a PhD who couldn't pay rent it's a downward mobile middle class kid who thought that learning a trade was beneath them

[spdionis]

I mean truck drivers make much more money than you'd think.

[silverquiet]

How much do they make?

[throwawaytea]

There's many types. I sold Audi/Porsche and every now and then I'd sell a fancy car to a FedEx driver type that does long haul runs to other states (with a team driver next to him), and he'd be making $150k a year+. Not bad for 4 days a week work, and ability to live in a slightly lower cost area.

Truck drivers making $80k a year and home most nights is pretty common.

[spdionis]

Often a mid level engineer salary at least.

[bellowsgulch]

And software is now so cheap, or free, that it's incredibly difficult to even start and maintain a single-member LLC software business.

[cyanydeez]

it'd be more instructive to compare what you get from apple silicon compared to x86 and ARM.

[kylec]

And yet in some ways, modern computers feel slower than those from decades ago. Software today is so, so much less efficient than it was back then.

[criddell]

In some meaningful ways they are measurably slower.

https://danluu.com/input-lag/

[ray__]

Great article. This is the kind of web design that I like.

[russfink]

Until recently, it was always cheaper to forego software architecture optimizations and rely on faster hardware, but now with AI I think this changes that calculus.

[sscaryterry]

Yes and no. Faster hardware doesn’t solve pathologically broken algorithms :)

[eatsyourtacos]

That is such an unfair comparison though. The reason we are now getting completely screwed on consumer electronics is because massive corporations just get to bully around the rest of the world and we have zero control over it.

Building a gaming PC right now is no longer affordable. I can't even upgrade my hard drives because they have tripled in price. And it's all because of good old capitalism.

[dd8601fn]

As I understood it, chipmakers aren’t scaling up in record time because the last few times they did that the market fell out from under them, and a bunch of them went out of business.

If it were just that they’re enjoying the insane demand, they’d necessarily be leaving billions on the table for someone else.

[epolanski]

The expectation was never that it would go back to being increasingly more expensive gen over gen especially at higher specs.

You could buy an m3-ultra with 512GBs of unified memory at around $ 14'000 3 years ago, and that's with the already insane nonsense Apple memory markup. As a reference, the same model with 96GB costed $ 3'999. 2'000, 3'000 $ more for the 512GB model? Okay... But 10?

Furthermore, you're lucky if you can get that 3 year old machine at 25'000 $, used! Let alone they haven't even provided a similar machine for two gens.

So essentially we're going both _backwards_ and more expensive, year after year, with zero signs of any reversion till the end of the decade.

Ffs, my colleagues brand new m2 had half the ram of my 2011 MBP. 12 years later!

This is absolute madness we have never seen.

[pupppet]

Computers got cheap due to necessity. The necessity is still there and raising prices is a rug pull.

[as1mov]

That's great, but then can you ask the manufacturers of the devices to support them for 20 years? Raw numbers mean jack shit if the device itself is completely abandoned and cannot run any applications. Banking, authentication and bunch of services require the device to be on the latest iOS/Android version, which is hard to do because the manufacturer dropped it like a hot brick after 5 years.