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by evdubs 34 days ago
> `(== a b)` is clearly worse than `a == b`

It's clearly worse just because it moved from infix to prefix and is wrapped by parens? Is `(* (+ a b) (+ c d))` clearly worse than `(a + b) * (c + d);`? Both have a bunch of parens, and one even has a semi colon.

This works both ways. `(list 1 2 3)` is clearly better than:

        var l = new List();
        l.add(1);
        l.add(2);
        l.add(3);
It's also better than `var l = [1, 2, 3];`

How often are you trying to make sense of a bunch of infix arithmetic operations when you're programming? Separately, how often are you creating data structures, navigating data structures, handling data in the form of JSON or XML, parsing that data into your language's native data structures, etc.?

Reading arithmetic in prefix instead of infix is easy, even if it is counter to how you were taught in elementary school. Working with s-expressions for code and data is clearly better than whatever syntax your language uses for code and either directly instantiating data or reaching for JSON or XML.

> justify its lack of static typing

Racket has both Typed/Racket as well as contracts.
1 comments
IshKebab 34 days ago
> Is `(* (+ a b) (+ c d))` clearly worse than `(a + b) * (c + d);`?

Yes.

> `(list 1 2 3)` is clearly better than ...

It's not better than `[1, 2, 3]` is it?

> How often are you trying to make sense of a bunch of infix arithmetic operations when you're programming?

Very often??

Anyway it isn't just the lack of infix that makes it difficult to read - there's also the crazy bracket matching, and the lack of syntax in general. Yes that is a strength when writing parsers, macros and so on, but it also definitely hurts readability.

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evdubs 34 days ago
> It's not better than `[1, 2, 3]` is it?

If you want to change your vector to a linked list, in Lisp, you can change from `(vector 1 2 3)` to `(list 1 2 3)`. If you have some array `[1, 2, 3]` and you want to change to a linked list for whatever performance concern, you'd have to replace `[1, 2, 3]` with..

    var list = new List();
    l.insert(1);
    l.insert(2);
    l.insert(3);
Maybe this example is contrived, but I feel like it is much more of a realistic example to want to change from an unsorted map to a sorted map. You can't just simply switch from `{k1: v1, k2: v2}` to `sorted{k1: v1, k2: v2}` as you could do in Lisp from `(unsorted-map k1 v1 k2 v2)` to `(sorted-map k1 v1 k2 v2)`. You'd need to write out all of your operations as with the list example. And, all of a sudden you are stuck with using the unsorted data structure for your JSON serialization rather than having the ability to reach for a sorted data structure.

`(date 2026 6 1)` is better than "2026-06-01" because the latter isn't a date, it's a date string. `(date 2026 6 1)` is better than `new Date(2026, 6, 1);` because the former is how it is serialized and can be deserialized.

> there's also the crazy bracket matching

At least with reading code, there is almost no reason to try to match brackets at all. It's like complaining about having to read semi-colons in languages that use them to signify the end of a statement. When writing code, Lisp is just another language like all the rest that benefit from an IDE that is syntax-aware. Having highlights for the starting paren and ending paren for an expression and being able to just select a particular expression make bracket matching fairly effortless.

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