[mothballed]

How do you deal with fraud and people cleaning out your bank account money rather than OPM of a credit card company? Just have enough spare cash for a burner checking account and wait for the fraud reversal?

In the US you'll almost always get your money back if someone defrauds your debit card but you could be in for a painful time if you depend on the money in that checking account until it gets fixed.

[jonathanlydall]

Banks suck it up, but fraud is likely a lot less prevalent because 3D Secure is mandatory for online transactions and chip and PIN were ubiquitous way before the US seemed to have started using it.

[lxgr]

The US still hasn't started using PINs for all credit and most debit transactions, and at this point it doesn't look like it ever will.

Apple and Google Pay are just as (if not more) secure anyway for the majority of transactions, and a long tail of US restaurants, hotels, corporate card issuers, rental car agencies etc. will simply never change their legacy flows. There are just too many incumbent stakeholders.

[jonathanlydall]

It’s a pity that US regulators can’t manage to mandate that the dinosaurs get with the times as fraud seems to me to be an enormous burden to US consumers.

Even if fraud victims get their money back, firstly it must be an admin headache and then merchants have to cover fraud losses/insurance costs and thus mark up all their prices to make sure they do, so everyone is subsidising the fraudsters.

I presume it’s lobbying that would/does thwart any attempts at any such regulation.

As someone outside of the US I would like to be able to largely ignore this problem as just affecting people over there, but unfortunately it spills into the rest of the world.

When I last had fraud on my card it was through an online US merchant, because, like most US online merchants, they don’t use 3D secure. If they did then blocking the transaction for me would have been as simple as pressing the “it’s fraud” option when my phone would have received a “do you want to allow this transaction of $X for Y in the US?” that my bank’s 3D secure system normally sends to me.

Hopefully Apple and Google Pay will eventually help things over there.

[Symbiote]

2FA on online transactions, secure PIN authentication for in-person purchases.

These reduce the level of fraud, and the banks cover the rest.

The basic stuff (online shop not delivering, going bankrupt etc) are covered for debit cards in a similar way as credit cards in other countries.

I've never had a fraudulent transaction myself, and it's over 20 years since I first had a debit card — with a chip and PIN.

[Muromec]

SEPA Direct debit still has a confirmation from the account holder. You usually see the pending transaction before it clears and can block it. Some banks (dreadful and hated bunq for example) require an active confirmation from the account holder before it is allowed to clear. Some have a setting hidden somewhere that sets the policy to autoaccept or something else.

I haven't ever seen illegitimate direct debit. I guess you need to have an actual business to issue direct debit orders and bank will show you the door and freeze your money if you start doing funny things. I guess.

Probably the dreadful R word has something to do with it, go figure.

On cards we also have limits and the only time I saw something happening was after being unfortunate enough to pass through ~~the ghet~~ the glorious capital of our continental Empire, majestic city of Brussels. That time the bank tried their best to call me.

[poisonborz]

Yes, I think most people have several accounts, or at least a main and a "spare money" account. If you can prove a fraud the law mandates the bank to back it up. In EU bank apps there are often many warnings and popups when authorizing a transaction. Also in EU you can get a refund of any digitally made purchase, by law you can send back the item for 30 days.

Chargeback always seemed strange to me and never needed it. Fraud should be reported and handled at the root, not by making digital transfers into some magic disappearing money.

[wongarsu]

Never had fraud on my credit or debit cards, and with 3D Secure it's difficult to pull off (basically 2FA for all online credit card purchases).

But I did have someone fraudulently making direct debit transfers from my bank account. My bank cleaned that up within three business days

[polytely]

can you give an example of being defrauded? I don't really know what people mean when they say that.

[izacus]

The only place I (as an EU citizen) ever came in contact with direct fraud was in... US.

It's not much of an issue within the EU area. The banks tend to offer insurance products for people who want to cover that risk.

[lxgr]

These insurances are the greatest sales trick of all time: Banks selling you something they're legally required to provide for free already.

[krzyk]

I don't think people keep all their money on a single account. I have 20 in my bank (different savings, some foreign currency accounts, etc.), and only one is tied to my debit card. I move money there when I need it. Opening another account number is just few clicks away. There is a limit for it also.

Single account sounds more like a boomer thing.