[gwbas1c]

> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale.

> can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge

The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the typical American.

(I know this as a former 2014 Leaf lessee. Short-range EVs only make sense when they are the only option in my price range, and I really, really want to drive an EV. Maybe the typical Mexican rarely drives far away from home? Or maybe this is for a niche of Mexicans who really, really want an EV and will tolerate a short range?)

[Rotdhizon]

I know absolutely nothing about Mexico in terms of geography or driving so I wonder how feasible an EV that you presumably constantly have to charge is going to fare. In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.

It's interesting that info about the car is only half the article. The other half is a commentary on how US politicians are desperately trying to keep foreign EVs out of the country, lest it hurt corporate profits.

[apparent]

> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.

It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.

[gwbas1c]

(2014 Leaf leaseholder here)

At the time we were a 2-car household and used the gas car for longer trips. That being said, there were a few times we had to scramble:

Once, when it was very cold my wife and I both needed to drive a long distance. I took the Leaf because I had access to a charger.

On our last year of the lease we ended up having to move 90 miles away. When we bought the Leaf, we never planned on driving that far. Due to circumstances, I had to make multiple 90-mile trips in the Leaf.

---

Case in point: I now only recommend that class of Leaf to people who need a 3rd car for a teenager and no intention of moving.

[apparent]

We considered getting a used Leaf but my wife had too much range anxiety, even for vehicles with 70 miles of range. I plotted out on a map how many trips she would have to take in a day (to work, to doctor, to pick up kid, to dentist, to store, etc.) in order to come even close to 70 miles. Of course, she never goes that far around town (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern, but it's literally a handful of times over the years.

[degenerate]

exactly - the rejection of short range EVs was when they cost as much as a normal car

if the short range EV is now much cheaper, people will adapt to the restriction because it's an affordable option

[apparent]

Yep, you can pick up used Leafs for super cheap (under $10k, sometimes substantially) and if they fit your use case, they're an amazing deal. Mostly helpful as a second car for a family, or as a city car for someone who never plans to road trip in it.

[SoftTalker]

Would have to be very affordable. Like well under $10K. Otherwise I'll just buy a used ICE vehicle and have a lot more flexibility in how I use it.

[jbm]

Even Cargo Bicycles cost more than $10k. I think a 6 seater people mover is worth far more than those.

I'd buy a 6 seater with this range but not with the speed limitations (I think it is like 50-60 kph which is a non starter)

[BenjiWiebe]

You can buy used ICE cars for $10k easy.

Like really really easy.

Apologies if I missed your point.

[floxy]

Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range.

[jjav]

> Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range.

I wish there still were small and very cheap EVs to fill this niche.

We had the Fiat 500e (somewhat infamous) $82 lease as an extra car because for $0 down and $82/month, why not. Range was small but it was perfect for around town, and had other cars for other things. Anytime I was driving within town I'd just take the Fiat.

[dsr_]

At $8500, I could justify having a 77 mile range electric car with a top speed of 30ish mph. That would take care of every in-town trip, but I couldn't do a full commute to work with it because the most sensible way of doing that involves a highway. If it could manage 50mph for 15 minutes, it could go on the highway and I could recharge at or near the office.

The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price. A Bolt has four times the range, but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive".

[apparent]

> The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price.

You can also get used EVs/PHEVs. We got a PHEV with 20 miles of EV range for $14k, and you can get used Leafs for under $10k.

[floxy]

>but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive"

...without a charging stop.

[floxy]

>charge it every single day.

That's pretty much standard operating procedure for any EV. That's one of the perks of owning an EV. Plug it in when you get home from work, and have a full "tank" every morning. Plus you get the cabin preheating using the wall electricity.

[phildenhoff]

If you have a charger at home, or at work, why does it matter if you have to charge it daily or weekly? Yes, for some lifestyles, range matters. For others, a 125 km range is perfectly acceptable

[HeyLaughingBoy]

For a significant segment of the US population, that thing wouldn't get them to work and back, so they'd have to charge it both at home and at work. And in many cases, forget running any errands, picking up kids from daycare, etc.

And minimum speed on US interstates is typically 40mph, so that reduces its usability even more.

[thelastgallon]

28% of trips are under a mile, 52% under three, 64% under five, 79% under ten, 93% under twenty-five, and 98% under 50 miles.

Only 0.8% of the trips are over 100 miles!

> For a significant segment of the US population, that thing wouldn't get them to work and back

0.8% is not significant.

[phildenhoff]

I don't think this car is designed for them, similar to how trucks are not designed for urban areas. Not every car has to cater to every demographic.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

People move around: that's what cars are for. Trucks may not be "designed for urban areas" (whatever that means), but they certainly go into them on a daily basis.

[applfanboysbgon]

I think you wildly overestimate how many Americans are white-collar workers commuting 100 miles to a 6-figure job. A <$10k EV was never even remotely aiming at that market to begin with.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

With a range of 77 miles, I wouldn't make it to work and back. Everyone I know (yes, it's anecdotal, but a widely-shared one) has to commute on roads where the average speed is well above 30mph.

This is a non-starter for the US.

[loloquwowndueo]

> I know absolutely nothing about Mexico in terms of geography or driving so I wonder how feasible an EV that you presumably constantly have to charge is going to fare.

Hey at least you admitted that upfront. Average driving speed in Mexico City is 15 km/h so one would have to spend 8h driving to deplete the battery in a day. Typical commutes are perhaps 1h one-way but again, distance wise probably only about 40 km both ways. So this 125km range easily covers it for most people.

I think energy cost is more of an issue for most. electricity is expensive in Mexico City especially compared to base salaries. And electrical infrastructure was never built to handle high power consumption. Most apartments have a single 30A breaker for the entire house. Most heating is done by gas and air conditioning is not widely used. For most people charging speed will likely be limited to about 10A at 120V.

[thelastgallon]

> You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.

Charging is not a problem when a car is stationary. It is parked next to a building, building usually has electricity (unless you are Amish).

I don't know why most people don't understand electricity is available everywhere, but petrol is only available at gas stations. You have to somewhere to pump gas, a major inconvenience.

[thelastgallon]

28% of trips are under a mile, 52% under three, 64% under five, 79% under ten, 93% under twenty-five, and 98% under 50 miles.

[gwbas1c]

This is the kind of misleading fact that motivated me to make my post. (Former 2014 Leaf leaseholder.)

Americans buy the car for the 1% trips. In my case, most of my car trips are short, but most of my milage is from long-range trips.

What's more informative is this post that explains Mexican driving behavior: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634740

[fajmccain]

This new EV is to replace motorcycles and scooters that are ubiquitous in mexico. If it succeeds in getting 100k people off of motorcycles it will have the side benefit of reducing healthcare costs treating motorcycle accidents.

[moralestapia]

People don't choose motorcycles and scooters because they like them, it's because they're cheaper than cars.

This EV is much more expensive than a motorcycle or a scooter, so on that regard it is DOA.

[CalRobert]

"The car is designed for urban settings and has a top speed of 50 kilometers (31 miles) per hour."

I don't think range will be an issue at that speed tbh.

Cool little transport but not really a "car" in the way we think of them.

[dieselgate]

> The car is designed for urban settings

Huh, the speed limit is odd because in my urban/city driving in the western US (San Diego, LA, SF, Portland and Seattle) all major cities still basically necessitate non-zero highway driving. Even mopeds (and bicycles) can pretty easily exceed 31 mph.

I've spent about 2 months total in Mexico City and there are still in-city areas where it'd be common to exceed 31 mph. The main rate limiter being traffic...

Anyway not to pooh-pooh the idea too much, I am sure there are plenty of use cases but maybe enabling a top speed of 55 mph would increase utility IMO

[fluoridation]

How many people do you know who can "easily" exceed 50 km/h on a bicycle?

[catlikesshrimp]

An amusing coincidence: the maximum allowed speed in Nicaragua is 50 km/h If This wasn't about to countries in America, I would suspect something technical behind those decisions. The only thing I can think of is the loss of energy efficiency when driving over 60km/h

As with everything, finding an official announcement of something in Nicaragua might be horrible, so have this instead https://ni.usembassy.gov/message-for-u-s-citizens-new-speed-...

[4MOAisgoodenuf]

The limits on range and speed (reported 50kph) would make it a horrible deal for the average American.

150k pesos (~$8.6k) for a brand new wheelchair-accessible city van seems like a killer deal in the Mexican market. That would come on the market for less than a used air-cooled VW beetle (ended production in Mexico in 2003)

[wqaatwt]

Can’t you get a much better used car for that? that’s probably one of the reasons why there is not much demand for basic cheap cars with no features in Western countries at least. Modern cars are much more reliable and last longer than they used to several decades ago and stripped down budget models can’t compete with that.

[FlyingSnake]

> can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge

This would be a big hit in European cities. I own VW e-Up! and it's a perfect EU city car. With it's 375KM range, I rarely charge it more than once a month.

[friarpuck]

I was thinking it would make a good candidate for city taxis and other such urban uses

[craftkiller]

NYC taxis drive an average of 180 miles per shift[0] so they'd need to triple the range or have some sort of system where they can swap their depleted taxi for a freshly-charged one mid-shift.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxis_of_New_York_City

[alemanek]

Yeah taxis in the capital and small people movers to go from hotel to beach is where these will shine. EVs are especially well suited to stop and go traffic as well.

People are so caught up trying to solve every use case at once. Dropping pollution caused by old taxis in city centers will be a big win for Mexico if they can hit their price point. At the price they are quoting fleet operators can buy 2 and have their drivers swap out mid-day during their lunch.

[dyauspitr]

77 miles is nigh useless. Realistically that means you get 40 worry free miles. It’s ridiculous.

[guywithahat]

That was my thought too. They obviously won’t face pushback entering the US from a legal standpoint, but I don’t think consumers will tolerate a sub-200 mile EV well here

[evan_]

> They obviously won’t face pushback entering the US from a legal standpoint

I suspect the current federal government might push back on a Mexican EV just for ideological reasons.

[waffletower]

Even a used Nissan Leaf with degraded batteries is a viable vehicle in many U.S. cities. I would not call these markets "niche", there are many mid-large metropolitan population centers where they are practical. To use "niche", is either a political denial or ignorance of the population distribution of the United States. They are popular where I live, I drove one as a primary vehicle for 8.5 years, and I have purchased another used Leaf for my teenager. The empty pickup truck is also a "niche" vehicle with this usage -- it clearly isn't an appropriate choice for every driving need and locale.