[l23k4]

Worked for the IRA. Working for Hamas. Working for the Islamic Republic.

Cowards would have you believe otherwise, but force is sometimes the only way to get what you want.

It really doesn't matter if you come across as the villain as long as you impose great enough costs for not delivering your desired reality.

[SukadarBukadar]

How is force working for Hamas? The shift in general sentiment towards Israel came from Israel's blatant disregard for civilian life and from their apartheid politics being put in spotlight. Hamas are still regarded as terrorist savages by everyone sane and their Oct 7 attack served as an excuse for Israel to set them back and hunt them regardless of collateral casualties, terrorizing their compatriots

[Gibbon1]

You seem to think the conflict will be decided by the vibes and sentiments of people who don't matter.

[SukadarBukadar]

Why would you think so? The conflict will most likely be decided by Israel (and by extension USA) having the biggest influence both globally and locally, and the biggest guns, but there is no misconception about it, so I decided not to add it.

[walletdrainer]

> How is force working for Hamas?

Brilliantly. It coaxed an Israeli overreaction which has led to basically the entirety of the rest of the world turning against Israel.

> Hamas are still regarded as terrorist savages by everyone sane

Why would Hamas care? They remain firmly in control of Gaza, while their cause is winning hearts and minds globally.

[throw37842358]

It’s sounds like you think it’s brilliant that more Palestinians were killed as long as it negatively affected Israel’s PR.

[walletdrainer]

lol

[joxdosba]

Typical Jewish troll, none of the comments suggested an endorsement of Hamas’s approach.

[SukadarBukadar]

Noone is responsible for others' (overre)actions.

So if you think justice for Palestinian civilians is their cause, it's not them who are responsible for it winning hearts and minds globally

[raverbashing]

While there are useful idiots in any situation (especially inside the UN), the level of sympathy for them - while was never high is going down steadly

[raverbashing]

The level of general sympathy for one of those (and their level of success) is much higher than for the others

Maybe because they were actively avoiding civilian targets

And even then mostly because a lot of people were supportive of their cause even if they were against their methods

[walletdrainer]

>And even then mostly because a lot of people were supportive of their cause even if they were against their methods

But IRA didn't win because those people supported their cause, IRA won despite those people being against their methods.

It was the force they used which directly led to the GFA, without the bombs and the killing the British would never have surrendered.

[erentz]

How can we know the IRA “won”? The country changed a hell of a lot over the course of the Troubles and by the time of the GFA in 1998 I don’t see how it is so clear that the reforms wouldn’t have also been achieved via other peaceful and democratic means.

[walletdrainer]

> How can we know the IRA “won”?

In signing the GFA, the UK effectively gave up on it's sovereignty over NI. That was never going to happen through "peaceful and democratic means"

[erentz]

What makes it giving up sovereignty? I understand it creates the potential for separation in future but not yet. The devolution of Scotland and Wales happened peacefully a couple(?) of years later, and Scotland may also separate in future.

[walletdrainer]

> What makes it giving up sovereignty? I understand it creates the potential for separation in future but not yet.

Look at where the border is, the separation has already happened to a very significant degree.

[GJim]

Good god!

It's difficult to make out if this is ignorance, a poor attempt at satire or simply trolling.

[joxdosba]

Which part do you disagree with?

The border is in the North Channel today, so the bit about sovereignty clearly holds up.

Are you saying the GFA would have been reached through peaceful means?

[raverbashing]

The rabbit hole goes much deeper than simply "they gave up on sovereignty"

[ACCount37]

2 out of 3 for "bombed to shit". I wouldn't call that "working".

I'm not sure if Iran's regime has the staying power, but Hamas sure doesn't seem to be in a good shape lately.

[actionfromafar]

Even if every single Hamas was killed - you have a whole population totally traumatized. That's extremely fertile ground for something like Hamas to pop up again. So, a lot of sufferring but Bibi and "Hamas" (or whatever) prospers.

[inigyou]

Hamas has been killed. Again and again and again. But people keep joining this "Hamas" resistance group against Israel so the group never seems to go away. And do you know why they join? They join because Israel killed their whole families.

[l23k4]

> but Hamas sure doesn't seem to be in a good shape lately.

And who do you see on track to displace Hamas? After years and years of conflict and being "bombed to shit", they're as entrenched as ever while their enemy declines much faster.

Israel is getting to a point where it has no friends left in the world, where the average European youth thinks nuking Israel and turning into a glass parking lot would probably be a net positive. Jews are starting to be broadly despised again thanks to Israeli policy, something that would have been unimaginable just a few years ago.

Hamas operatives lead shitty lives in the Gaza strip as they have for decades, but they certainly aren't losing control.

Over the course of a few years, Hamas managed to turn wearing a star of David in big EU cities into a dangerous political statement. And we're supposed to believe that they're not winning?

[SukadarBukadar]

There are two actors and you're mixing up who is responsible for which outcome. I explained in more detail in another comment

[walletdrainer]

There's no credit due for correctly reading your adversary?

Obviously the Israelis could have just kept their mask on, but Hamas was clearly correct in their calculation that they wouldn't.

[throw37842358]

Your arguments are self-contradictory. You say force is great, but only for Hamas - not for Israel.

A youth who thinks Israel should be genocided doesn’t care about genocide, so why hate Israel?

The hate in Europe is driven primarily by an influx of people who were hating Jews anyway, and who naively think that the hatred won’t backfire on them. Once you start promoting racism it comes for everyone.

[l23k4]

>The hate in Europe is driven primarily by an influx of people who were hating Jews anyway

You are mistaken, the sentiments are shifting across the board.

This is probably driven to a significant degree by the Israeli national policy of tying any criticism of Israel with antisemitism, and the broad acceptance of that policy by Jewish communities globally. Because of this implicit endorsement, it is not surprising that many would struggle to separate between the actions by taken by the state of Israel and those who call themselves Jews.

[inigyou]

A youth who hates Israel thinks genociding genociders is okay

[watwut]

The final victory of Islamic Republic was after they did NOT used force against west, but when America and Israel started idiotic war, bragged about using force and then promptly lost.

This was quite literally the case of "actions backfire" situation.