[jordand]

I've been running GrapheneOS for 7 months now and I'm not going back. When I bought my Pixel 10 last year, I wasn't actually planning on trying Graphene for a while....until I noticed Google had force bundled a 'Wicked For Good' movie promo theme with the latest security update.

[sivers]

Ha! Me too! Exact same. Bought a Pixel 10. Intended to do the default Android for a while. But it was filled with ads for “Wicked” which had me looking at my phone with a sneer on my face I couldn't erase - as if someone had smeared feces all over it and threw it on my bed.

So I jumped straight to GrapheneOS, which was way easier and less extreme than I had been warned. So beautifully minimal, with no crap. Now my phone feels like a simple Linux (Void/Arch) PC. So wonderful.

[edwcross]

Does it affect the photo quality? It used to require letting go of the default photo app and thus a downgrade in photo processing.

[Cider9986]

No, if you install the Google camera there is no difference in quality and by revoking network you don't lose privacy.

[dns_snek]

> by revoking network you don't lose privacy

Be careful, apps can still communicate with other apps, e.g. revoking the network permission doesn't stop apps from fetching and displaying ads over the network. I don't know enough about Android internals to understand the mechanisms behind it, but clearly there are ways for apps to exfiltrate data.

> Trying to use Network as a complete data exfiltration toggle isn't the intended purpose, and you should always consider apps within the profile being able to communicate for ALL data and access including permissions. It is not something only relevant to Network.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/4024-in-what-extent-can-app...

https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/2197

[Cider9986]

I don't have any Google or closed source apps with network permission, but thank you for sharing that quote I haven't seen that before.

[samplifier]

Eye opener. Thanks for the warning! GrapheneOS sandboxes all apps including GSF as far as I understand. It would be nice if full capabilities could be exposed or at least shown in the app settings. There is the "All permissions" view which has a "have full network access" item with the following details: `Allows the app to create network sockets and use custom network protocols. The browser and other applications provide means to send data to the internet, so this permission is not required to send data to the internet.` Does this mean the app has this permission and even without it can fully access the internet? If so the primary "network" permission is very misleading. I wish for a smartphone-like device which installs apps with `cap_drop: ALL` by default. I wish for a government which would support such a standpoint and "assist" companies not able to provide a service which require intrusive data gathering. Either that or we're all just one big happy family with no secrets and no jealousy and no drama. sigh

[microtonal]

Every Android app can do IPC with Android apps in the same profile. So an app without Network Access could cooperate with an app with Network Access to communicate with the outside world. Of course, most notably, a lot of apps communicate with Play Services and people generally leave on network access for Play Services to avoid breaking to much stuff.

There has been talk of developing 'IPC scopes', similar to how there are contact scopes.

[J-Kuhn]

To my knowledge, any app can just instruct the installed browser (Google Chrome, Vanadium, Firefox...) to open http[s]://tracker.evil-ad-network.example/?installedId=012345.

[1vuio0pswjnm7]

"Be careful, apps can still communicate with other apps, e.g. revoking the network permission doesn't stop apps from fetching and displaying ads over the network."

Another example relating to tracking ad targets, also known as "users":

"Around September 2024, Meta developed a creative solution to evade Androids sandboxing restrictions. (Id. 4849, 52.) Devices have localhost ports, which simulate a communications channel by allowing applications or services running on the device to communicate with each other... without those communications leaving the device. (Id. 53.) Meta modified its Pixel code (the Modified Pixel) so that it would send the _fbp cookies contents to a designated localhost port. (Id. 55.) In turn, Meta modified its Facebook and Instagram apps to listen to that localhost port for incoming data. (Id.) The Facebook and Instagram apps combined any incoming localhost data with personal information and identifiers, and subsequently shipped that combined data from the users Android device to its own servers. (Id.) As a result, even though Meta would typically have a harder time identifying Android users, Meta was now able to perfectly deanonymize Android users browsing activity if they used its apps. (Id.)

Meta's conduct was unknown until a group of internet security researchers disclosed it on June 3, 2025. (Id. 4; Dkt. No. 104-3.)

Shortly after the researchers public disclosure, Meta announced that it decided to pause use of this tracking method. (Id. 69; Dkt. No. 104-4 at 5.)

In this consolidated action, Plaintiffs assert nine claims against Meta: ... (3) violation of the Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. 2511(1); (4) violation of the California Invasion of Privacy Acts (CIPA) wiretapping provisions, Cal. Penal Code 631; (5) violation of CIPAs eavesdropping provisions, Cal. Penal Code 632; (6) violation of CIPAs eavesdropping device provisions, Cal. Penal Code 635; ... Plaintiffs assert an additional two claims against Google: negligence and negligent misrepresentation.

Plaintiffs CIPA pen register, unjust enrichment, and negligent misrepresentation claims are DISMISSED. Dismissal is with LEAVE TO AMEND because the Court cannot conclude on the current record that amendment would be futile. All other claims survive dismissal."

The above is an excerpt from In re Meta Android Privacy Litigation (3:25-cv-04674, N.D. Cal., June 3, 2025)

https://dn711508.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.45...

https://dn711508.ca.archive.org/0/items/gov.uscourts.cand.45...

Of course Meta will eventually settle, like Google did in Brown v Google, in Google's case on the eve of trial. The wiretapping claims would be catastrophic for these companies

But the Court's observations are interesting

"At this early stage in the case, and given the undeniably significant portion of mobile phones using Apples iOS, it is reasonable to infer an industry custom of placing tight controls on communications between apps based on Apples restrictions."

[theodric]

Install a 3rd party GCam and then the answer is no https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/

[cwillu]

That sounds like the answer is actually yes: we're not talking about the lack of a camera app, but the lack of a camera app that knows the details of the usually-proprietary camera firmware

[oynqr]

You can install both the regular GCam as well as third party mods. Actual GCam feels worse to me.

[t0bia_s]

Problem with stock Google camera app is that it made horrible HDRlike images even with HDR turned off. You cannot adjust amount of reduced highlights and increased shadows which makes images unrealistic with lack of depth.

[subscribed]

I mean...... Google Camera has slightly different approach to low light photos and much better panorama mode, which means you can just install it and use with network access denied.

I mainly use native camera (good in most cases, can be brought up immediately with double power button press, from locked), Google camera (rarely), BlackMagic for when I need control over videos and ProShot when I need control over images (the last one might be hard to install - it's a paid app (I'm a paid user, this is how I got it), but not long time ago the moron of the developer made the app "incompatible" with devices without Google surveillance buttplug claiming it will prevent people pirating it form opening support cases....???).

So you can have multiple camera apps. Thankfully Google is not Samsung or Sony, and all the apps have full access to the cameras.

[qingcharles]

That really pissed me off when I found the only app that can access the full output of the sensor on Samsung is their own shitty app. WTF.

[jordand]

We took control, we're keeping control

[OtomotO]

What about banking Apps? No problem there?

Some of them have ridiculous secur... compliance rules.

[goerg]

There is a list of compatible banking apps: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

[kakacik]

Big list, unfortunately one of my banks is not there (BCGE, Switzerland), most probably meaning I can't even login into ebanking in any other way since they have their properietary authentication app (CrontoSign, also not listed). Its rather small regional/cantonal bank so I get it, even though that region is Geneva, mecca of (some types of) banking.

Other banks that I use are there. Almost perfect...

[Semaphor]

Being missing means they haven’t been tested, not that they don’t work. Generally they probably only don’t work if they require the google play verification thingy

[flexxxxxxxxxer]

My banking apps were missing in list too, it doesn't mean that they are not working. You can test and report on that issue tracker about your banking app if it works :)

[Scrounger]

> What about banking Apps? No problem there?

Most banking apps work, but Google Pay/NFC payments won't work.

[tEem21]

If your bank doesn't have its own payment app, but PayPal Card is available in your country, I got this setup to work on Graphene by installing PayPal into the Secure Folder, install the sandboxed Play Services there (required) and setup the mobile payments in the app. It's not a great solution, but for I keep it around for emergencies.

[master-lincoln]

I know a handful of german banks that have their own nfc payment apps that still work in Graphene

[themk]

Google Pay may not work, but NFC payments through yiur bankapp probably do. They did for me.

[Semaphor]

The vast majority work, check this list for details: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

[aaron_m04]

I had to enable "exploit protection compatibility mode" to use my credit union's app.

[anticrymactic]

In my experience: Everything™ works, except Google pay unfortunately.

[nik282000]

You trust a phone with your banking?

[plorg]

My banks app complains will block me and tell me to disable developer mode, but if I turn it right back on after launching the app it won't complain for maybe another week. The post that really annoys me, though, is that if you don't set up biometric unlock they will not allow you to use the extended login cookie, so you need to put in your password every time, most don't work with password managers either (whether intentionally or not).

[teekert]

iOS is also going into this direction, just open the AppStore, it’s all the cheapest most horrible apps. Temu (shop like you don't give a s* about the planet), addictive AI Waifu’s (who needs human interaction anyway), clean your stuff but fake-time-wasting style (it's free dopamine!), search option’s first hit is often scammy (ie search for MS Authenticator). I feel that Steve ("If you want pr0n get an Android") would turn around in his grave from the sight of this.

Its just a matter of time before this cesspool will leak into the rest of the OS, AppStore shows us the temptation is too big for Apple. When my iPhone 12 mini dies it’s /e/OS or GrapheneOS for me. My devices should serve me and my thoughts are my own.

[strcat]

You should read https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... about /e/ and also look at what they say about devices with strong privacy and security including but not limited to https://grapheneos.social/deck/@GrapheneOS/11635397373214317....

[teekert]

I'm aware of this discussion, I don't really like the way the Graphene people communicate, also against FairPhone.

But nevertheless I'm looking forward to their Motorola offer that should come any minute now?

[Cider9986]

Grapheneos communicates with facts, not opinions. It can come off as abrasive but it's never unfounded attacks or opinions.

[Cider9986]

I take this back. It may be true now, but it wasn't always true.

[port11]

The AppStore has been like that for eons, but then again I don’t know a single person that uses it or checks the “content” posted there. It’s an utter waste of time.

I don’t think it will leak. After the U2 debacle, Apple might have learned not to push too hard on this front.

[Cub3]

> it was filled with ads

You bought a phone from an advertising company?

[greentea23]

All factory operating systems come with ads and bloat and spyware, Apple/Samsung included. Google remains the lesser of all other evils because at least to date, they offer an open source OS, bootloader unlocking, and root. A community driven mobile OS is absolutely where we should go, but for now and the foreseeable future you can call a Lyft, deposit a check (in America), and do other mainstream tasks on AOSP flavors without Google/Apple/Samsung having to know anything about it. It's never been easier to make the user friendly choice too: https://grapheneos.org/install/web

[fg137]

It's not like buying from Samsung is any better.

[dackdel]

for some reason i read that in archer(animated) voice.

[izacus]

Probably because it's a dumb useless comment in the same vein as most of that show.

[teekert]

I read this in a whiny high pitched voice with my nose and lower lip pulled up.

[harvey9]

Don't recall my old nexus devices having ads in the OS. Disappointing where Google has taken this.

[ClikeX]

Technically they already did a built in ad with Android KitKat. Mostly benign, but I do remember being at an Android event and KitKats samples being given out to everyone. As well as KitKat wrappers being branded with the Android logo for a while.

[yard2010]

"Do you not?"

[theandrewbailey]

When I got a new phone last year, I purposely got a Pixel (open box 9a) to put GrapheneOS on it immediately. Been happy living the de-Googled Android life since.

I was sad that I had to go through the OOBE setup on the stock image to unlock the bootloader. At least it doesn't force an internet connection and login, unlike Windows.

[sowbug]

If it's any consolation, the wipe* requirement before unlocking the bootloader is generally a good thing, even if it's inconvenient. Someone who is targeting your personal data gets access to your encrypted phone, either by stealing it or in an evil maid situation. They unlock the bootloader and install privileged code that helps them recover the symmetric encryption key or intercept your PIN. Then they either have your data or wait for you to enter the PIN. In theory recovery shouldn't be possible (access to the key depends on a secure element that rate limits brute-force attacks), but security bugs do happen. Wiping* your data before removing the bootloader's signing requirement is an extra layer of protection.

*It doesn't actually wipe your data; it just destroys the symmetric key, making the data permanently unreadable.

[Markoff]

AFAIK you can't unlock bootloader without wiping the data, that's my experience from last 15 years unlocking bootloaders on various phones

so it's kinda pointless to wipe data prior wiping them again during the bootloader unlocking process

[sowbug]

We're saying the same thing. The bootloader unlocking process includes a step that destroys the FDE key.

[Sophira]

While the OOBE of the stock image doesn't force an Internet connection, the ability to unlock the bootloader does - whether you can do it or not depends on the phone manufacturer's desire, and Android for some reason uses an Internet connection to check that.

My understanding is that it is impossible to unlock the bootloader on a new recent (Android 7+ at least; possiblt earlier) Android phone until it has connected to the Internet. After that, the ability to unlock the bootloader is permanent.

[dlenski]

Yep, on older phones it was certainly possible without an Internet connection.

On the Nexus 5, you could just `fastboot oem unlock` right out of the box, install TWRP (custom "recovery") and install CyanogenMod/LienageOS, without ever booting the stock ROM.

On my Moto G4 Play and Moto X4, you had to get an unlock code from the Motorola website (based on the phone serial number I think) and waive some warranty terms, but once retrieved at least the phone didn't need to be online to unlock the bootloader.

The process on the newer Pixels is disappointingly intrusive, like basically everything Google has done for the last decade.

[Markoff]

If it is any consolation it became intrusive on pretty much every single brand nowadays, if they at least offer bootloader unlocking option.

[Sophira]

I misspoke when I said Android 7+, my apologies; I was thinking of my Pixel 7, which runs Android 13.

[Markoff]

it should be possible on Sony and OnePlus phones and maybe other brands, though it can require obtaining code from internet on other device, but the device being unlocked itself doesn't need to have internet connection

[a96]

I think LG had a system for getting unlock codes as well, but they closed it a long time ago.

Any other manufacturer may alter the deal any time. In case you have such a phone, dear reader, consider getting your code if you still can even if you won't use them yet.

[Sophira]

...I feel a bit silly. When I said "Android 7+", I was thinking of my Pixel 7, which runs Android 13, so "Android 13+" is what I actually meant to say. Oops.

[qurren]

Is it possible to install basic Google apps like Gmail, Calendar, Maps, Drive without googlifying the whole phone?

I'm not looking to fully de-Google but I want Google as apps and not my OS.

[handedness]

I run a litany of Google (and other corporate/business apps) apps in Private Space under the owner's profile, which is only unlocked when I need it for something. That space's connection can go out over a WireGuard tunnel if I need those apps to be on any specific networks, while the rest of the phone's traffic is unaffected. The file systems stay functionally separate (although that's not a major concern given how file encryption is handled, plus the dream that is Storage Scopes), and that space has its own camera app and such.

The Owner profile itself doesn't run Google Play Services, so when that Private Space is locked and dormant it's effectively a degoogled stack.

Some will invariably argue that an old pocket-sized Linux PC with a cellular modem is a superior experience, and for some specific things it may well be, but GrapheneOS is the only viable option for someone looking for a user-respecting modern phone with very few limitations.

[hiitsmyaccount]

Yes, you install the Google Play store via the GrapheneOS App Store. The OS comes with like 5 apps out of the box. The rest is up to you.

Biggest caveats that I've encountered: tap to pay via Google Wallet is a no go, Android Auto can be flaky, MDM managed work profiles don't work at the moment, and some apps that use the Google Play integrity API fail to validate and refuse to work (I've only encountered one app that fails, and plenty others that work.)

In general, I'm moving towards a de-Googled life and GrapheneOS is a great entrypoint towards that.

[strcat]

Android Auto is fully supported and shouldn't be any more flaky than it is on the stock OS. It's often flaky due to a bad USB connection or problematic implementation in the car. That's just how it is everywhere.

Google Wallet bans using anything other than an unmodified Google Mobile Services stock OS but there are alternatives in certain regions. In Europe, there are a lot of banking apps with tap-to-pay compatible with GrapheneOS and also Curve Pay. PayPal also has a limited tap-to-pay launch in Germany.

[handedness]

My end-run around Google's absurd unwillingness to certify GOS for Google Pay has been Garmin Pay, which has worked virtually everywhere I've ever tried it.

I'm hopeful that an OEM Motorola device will get certified for Google Pay.

[microtonal]

Depends as bit on the country and bank. I also use Garmin Pay, but my bank only supports adding their credit card (not debit card) and a substantial portion of shops here only supports contactless payment through debit cards (credit cards have historically not been popular here).

So I get to use contactless payment at maybe 50% of the stores, which is annoying, because it's sometimes hard tot tell ahead of time.

[qurren]

> MDM managed work profiles

Do you mean actual employer-spyware MDM work profiles? I suppose I never expected those to work.

Or do you mean things like Shelter, which uses work profiles and which I use to quarantine certain less-trusted apps?

[hiitsmyaccount]

Yes, I mean MDM work profiles. I play an IT guy at work and am a Google Workspace admin. We have it running in BYOD mode and it's actually not intrusive at all. The most sensitive data you can see as an admin is what apps are installed in the work profile, the phone's make + model, and the version of Android. Nothing like location, charge level, or anything outside of the work profile. I'm fine with running it on my personal device (I actually really like the way it functions), but it's borked on current versions of GOS.

[nekusar]

How to say "I work for a company too cheapass to provide work devices".

Its all fun and games until the company gets hit with a lawsuit and discovery hits your phone and ALL your accounts, corporate and personal.

[y2244]

Tap to pay is mostly NFC? So is there an alternative app?

[cyberax]

I extracted a chip (by dissolving the plastic in acetone) from my card and glued it to the wriststrap of my Pebble watch :)

[distances]

When using contactless payment with my card, about 10% of the time the payment terminal tells me to insert the card to the reader slot instead and enter my PIN. I assumed this is a general security feature, but I guess it depends on the issuing bank then. This in Europe.

[pezgrande]

Nice hack but sounds quite unsafe, I like having to unblock de phone in order to use it.

[subscribed]

Garmin Pay, Samsung pay if you have a compatible bank and card, PayPal in Germany and sometimes banks' own systems.

I had a very weird (bad) experience with Curve support so I couldn't recommend it.

NFC payments work, it's only Google who claims a phone not patched for 8 years is safe and secure, but phone with working hardware attestation and patched 6 months ahead of everyone else is insecure.

[jordand]

Curve Pay has worked well for me. Only good alternative as it doesn't depend on Google Play Services too

[wolvoleo]

Yes you can use Curve pay.

Edit: Apparently that's Europe only? I'm in Europe so yeah. I didn't know that.

[dgrabla]

Paypay works as well (at least in Germany)

[vrganj]

There's Curve Pay in Europe. In the US, I'm not sure.

[hxorr]

I believe one of Graphene OS's main features is that they allow you to run google play services in a sandboxed environment, so you can run your standard google apps but without the standard android deal where google play services has unfetteted access to all your phone's location/data/etc info

[drnick1]

> I'm not looking to fully de-Google but I want Google as apps and not my OS.

This is entirely possible as other posters have explained. But I think it kind of defeats the point of Graphene, at least somewhat. Google is already profiling every aspect of your life by reading your emails, files, calendar, location, etc? In that case, OS access becomes moot.

I think that GrapheneOS makes most sense as part of a broader move towards privacy-respecting alternatives. I see the sandboxed Play Services as something useful perhaps in a secondary user profile, for the odd commercial app required and only available from the Play Store.

[qurren]

> In that case, OS access becomes moot.

Not really.

1. A non-Google OS can shut off background running access to Google apps, as well as supply Google apps with mock location data and other data

2. Google does other things to the OS that drive me nuts. Like allowing apps to restrict screenshots. I own the phone. If I want a screenshot, it should screenshot. This is not something for apps or Google to determine, and if the OS listens to me (not the app) it should allow screenshotting the display 100% of the time regardless of what the app cries about.

[Scrounger]

> Like allowing apps to restrict screenshots. I own the phone. If I want a screenshot, it should screenshot. This is not something for apps or Google to determine, and if the OS listens to me (not the app) it should allow screenshotting the display 100% of the time regardless of what the app cries about.

PREACH!

I hate this.

[fooqux]

I agree and have moved mostly away from everything Google. But it's hard to replace maps. I know open street maps exists but it's hard to beat Google's data gathering.

[wolvoleo]

I think OSM is way way better. It has every little path in the hills I walk. On Google Maps I'm just walking in a featureless green blob. OSM even has unofficial trails that are no more than a worn-down line in the brush.

Maybe for cars Google is better but I don't use those. But even there I see really detailed stats.

OSMAnd is a really great full featured mapping app. A real tool that you can configure in detail. And Organic maps is more simple and quick like Google maps.

There's just two things I still need Google for: most businesses don't bother keeping their opening hours etc updated on other mapping services, and in my city they have live data on the public transport network. This should really be mandated to be offered to open street map too.

[flaburgan]

Don't forget to update the business hours in OSM when you see they are missing / wrong

[eblanshey]

I use Google Maps on Graphene. It works perfectly. You still get the benefits of the rest of the phone being degoogled. Just allow it to access your location only when you're actively using the app. When it's closed, it's closed.

[donalhunt]

There are players in the OpenStreetMap ecosystem attempting to change that. I know the team behind Organic Maps are actively working to make their app as viable as possible by sourcing appropriate data for example.

[DarkUranium]

Organic Maps is amazing.

I actually find that it blows Google Maps out of the water for cycling (which is why/how I discovered it). I haven't really used it for driving much because my own car has a builtin nav, so can't really comment on that.

YMMV of course.

[theandrewbailey]

I've been using HERE WeGo for almost a year. I had to install a text to speech engine in order to get voice directions. (I installed the GlaDOS one, now the evil computer tells me where to go.)

https://www.here.com/products/wego

https://here-wego.en.aptoide.com/app

https://k2-fsa.github.io/sherpa/onnx/tts/all/index.html

[handedness]

I've settled on running CoMaps in the Owner profile, with Google Maps/Waze/etc. in the Owner profile's Private Space for when they're necessary.

[fooqux]

Can that setup work with android auto? If so, I'll need to try that.

[thefz]

Different scopes and purposes. Google Maps is made to find commercial activities and addresses, OSM is there to map the territory around.

[fph]

I recommend Magic Earth. Free with traffic and navigation, and strong privacy promises (unlike Here Maps).

[Scrounger]

> I recommend Magic Earth.

LOL Bruh... this has a 1.7 rating on Android based on 42k reviews

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.generalmag...

[strcat]

Using Sandboxed Google Play doesn't defeat the purpose of using GrapheneOS and neither does using Google apps. It does not exist specifically to avoid Google apps or services. It exists to provide a highly private and secure OS retaining high usability and app compatibility. Being able to use sandboxed Google Play is an important part of what it provides. Many GrapheneOS users don't use it and many who do use it are only using it in a dedicated profile for a small subset of apps but that's not at all required to heavily benefit from GrapheneOS. Moving to more private apps/services over time does make sense but it isn't mandatory and users can choose what kind of compromises they wan to make.

[jzer0cool]

What are some good alternatives

[drnick1]

The best alternatives are self-hosted, e.g. your own email, CalDAV, CardDAV, and file servers, with e.g. K9 as email client.

[strcat]

Yes, those are all compatible and the only way to use them is as regular sandboxed apps without any special access. Sandboxed Google Play can be installed in the profiles of your choice. Installing it in the main Owner user is a valid choice and doesn't at all ruin what GrapheneOS provides but you can make a dedicated work profile or Private Space for it to keep it separate. Only apps in the same profile can see it and use it, so you can control which apps will use their functionality depending on it that way.

[notRobot]

Yes, you can have sandboxed Google apps: https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play

[upboundspiral]

Yes absolutely.

You can install nonprivileged google stuff on the main account.

Alternatively you can setup a private space (accessible to the main user but mostly separate from the main system) with a few clicks in the settings.

If you prefer more friction / isolation you can setup a separate user where you can install the google stuff.

[genpfault]

What's the app data backup/restore story on GrapheneOS?

My understanding is that even with pseudo-D2D (device-to-device) transfers Seedvault doesn't backup everything[1].

Are there more-functional, non-root, local (non-cloud) alternatives?

[1]: https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault/wiki/FAQ#why-do-s...

[handedness]

Seedvault is still woefully insufficient, but it sounds like there's work being done to replace it. I can't imagine the enterprise crowd will overlook that and I'm hoping the Motorola partnership enables faster development.

[3092-8121-9924]

> Seedvault is still woefully insufficient

Ever since seedvault implemented local D2D API for app data availability and changed their repository format (inspired by restic's hashing) I've grown to trust seedvault enough that it's my sole phone backup.

Seems to schedule/backup/restore just fine, even cross-device. Gets all the apps and files I care about. Incremental runs are slow but efficient (<1MB transferred).

I have some UX gripes and would prefer if key and snapshot management was more flexible but the sentiment I see seems to be rooted in the earlier days when seedvault was more naive.

Look forward to a GOS-native solution all the same.

[handedness]

Thanks for your report. I'll give it another look.

[subscribed]

Backup situation is absolutely awful, don't count on it.

[lucb1e]

Not without root, no

[RachelF]

I too, liked it.

However, some apps that I need for work, like Microsoft Authenticator, no longer work under GrapheneOS.

https://www.theregister.com/on-prem/2026/03/10/microsoft-tig...

[eszed]

Yeah, I'm hanging on with GrapheneOS (on a Pixel) until their native-hardware (Motorola) phones come out, which hopefully will solve this. As I understand it, third-party (banks and so forth) app vendors have to accept their security attestation, which they don't right now, but (I hope) will with Motorola behind them.

[cybertim]

Graphene is NOT a jailbroken/rooted OS, its a real secure unrooted, bootloader locked OS, and MS Authenticotor works just fine. If anything does not work its related to dependency of the App maker on a certain attestation google play services grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide

[MIL-STD]

Root =/= insecure. You probably have administrator access on your home computer operating system, and can very likely do online banking via the web browser with no issues. A secure API is possible regardless of the host metal, operating system, or user permissions.

[Itoldmyselfso]

Do you refer to app-accessible root or user root access? The former is absolutely inherently insecure and compromises the security model of Android/GOS.

[fph]

Root on computers is insecure. Malware can steal secrets from other applications. We're just used to it, but the Android security model is much better.

[OtomotO]

Bingo!

Compliance =!= Security

[flawn]

This does not play a role - even if you lock your bootloader Play Integrity Checks still fails, and that means you can't use certain apps, MDM and overall restricts your usage. Thank Google for that.

[idiotsecant]

Sounds like your work has been using your personal phone for free

[palata]

Microsoft Authenticator works on my GrapheneOS (not rooted).

[Gigachad]

I hate how common it's become for companies to force you to install things on your personal phone. Even worse is some of them demand you install a MDM profile on your personal phone which feels 1000% over the line of reasonable.

[dlenski]

I've just refused to install such things on my phone.

You want me to have email and teams/slack on my phone? Sorry, I won't install the spyware. Want to pay for me to have a second phone with it? Okay. No? Well then, I just won't have email on my phone.

[Gigachad]

Sure if you are in a strong stable position in life you can do that. The average person doesn’t want to rock the boat and cause troubles in their life so they install the invasive mdm profile.

It needs to be made illegal imo. The company should provide you a device if you need one for the job.

[p2detar]

> invasive mdm profile

What do you think is invasive in an MDM profile? It's just a channel to push data to your phone. Your information outside the work container stays private. Even inside the work container nobody can actually fetch any data from those apps.

I do agree with you though - a company must provide phones to their employees, not force them to enroll into their MDM services. The latter should be only for exceptional cases, e.g., gain temporarily access to corporate VPN, WiFi, etc., on your private device.

[binarin]

My company MDM doesn't consider GrapheneOS good enough to give me access to email/calendar - impasse?

[pferde]

"I would love to, but I do not have a compatible phone. I cannot afford it."

[notme43]

Spyware aside - I think about data breaches, even if my phone is "secure/compliant".

Scenario: Your account gets compromised somehow. It's signed in to your personal phone. Company data gets leaked or ransomed.

Your phone and its contents are now evidence.

[_carbyau_]

From the linked article it seems this is related to Entra accounts which are Azure cloud related.

[Sarkie]

Google Authenticator works?

[gonzalohm]

I think Google authenticator implements the standard OTP which lots of apps (including keepass) should support. Microsoft uses their own propietary crap

[kuerbel]

You can try to add the standard OTP even for Microsoft crap. If it asks you to register for mfa and opens the screen that says something about downloading the Microsoft authenticator app there is a small link at the bottom, letting you use another app. Then you get a qr code that you can scan with any other auth app.

[saintfire]

I use a basic OTP password instead of Microsoft's ironically less secure (see SMS as 2FA) with my work MS account. Perhaps your org disabled it but it is definitely something a Microsoft account can do.

[Peanuts99]

Proper Microsoft authenticator setup is more secure than OTP because it's pushed based and doesn't allow users to copy paste their OTP codes into phishing sites. Google also prefer push based MFA for this reason.

[saintfire]

Push based, sure. Allowing SMS, I still hold, undermines all of this.

They "secure" this behind password which you entered to trigger the SMS push in the first place.

Offering an "out" to a more secure flow means your secure flow may as well not exist.

Additionally, phishing a pushed OTP is not really much harder since you can trigger the push and then just have the user finish off the flow for you, provided they don't read the IP or whatever you display them (they won't, they think they're signing in), effectively the same as a TOTP.

[bigiain]

Memories of Apple force pushing a U2 album to everyone's iPod (or maybe iPhone) back in the day.

[IdiotSavage]

Or the more recent memory of the F1 ad pushed via the wallet app.

[LeoPanthera]

That was a hilariously tone-deaf incident, but it's hardly comparable. Google pushed ads. Apple gave you a free album.

[davidwritesbugs]

Yes, but a _U2_ album. An ad is 30 seconds of irritation, but a U2 album is like having broken glass sown under your skin.

[molybd3num]

yeah but you aren't forced to listen to it

[lisnake]

For people with no other albums, Carplay was playing that U2 album automatically when they enter their car. So some people were forced to listen to it :-)

[aaron_m04]

> [...] until I noticed Google had force bundled a 'Wicked For Good' movie promo theme with the latest security update.

This is how users learn to not update anything.

[chuckadams]

Won't matter when they force the updates anyway. You think that's your phone?

[amelius]

Happy GrapheneOS user here too since 2+ years now.

Small point of critique: it would be nice if it was a little bit easier to switch between personas, for example by simply scrolling to a different workspace. Because now the feature is mostly unused on my phone.

[Randomno]

> Wicked For Good

Is this an antithesis to Don't Be Evil?

[samplatt]

How's the P10 camera on graphene? Literally 90% of the reason I'm on a pixel is because I love the low-light smarts that the camera software has, but I don't know if I'll lose that with Graphene.

[Aissen]

You can install the Google Camera, if you use sandboxed Google Play. It has all the same features AFAIK.

[Itoldmyselfso]

It works exactly the same as in the original "Pixel OS", you just install the same camera app from Play store.

[FloatArtifact]

Any issues with banking insurance or healthcare applications?

[Cider9986]

Banking 90+% of apps work. Some apps officially support GrapheneOS.

The vast vast majority of apps (99%+) are compatible and those that are broken is due to bugs in the apps which GOS catches, but these exploit protections can be disabled, and apps that use the monopolistic play integrity api.

The only apps that are permanently broken are those using the strongest play integrity api which is security theatre.

Here's a community created list of banking applications and their current status on GOS.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

[t0bia_s]

Why would you use app for actual insuranceb or even healthcare?

[FloatArtifact]

This is not really about me, but understanding if these apps have issues running under the OS. These type of apps typically have extra "security" features.

[t0bia_s]

Such as? If there is dependency on proprietary software, you can install it on GOS if you want and consider it more "safe".

[FloatArtifact]

> Such as? If there is dependency on proprietary software, you can install it on GOS if you want and consider it more "safe".

Again, this isn't about me. I'm fine giving up some convenience, but I know other people aren't. The average person is just going to simply install the app. Part of me asking this questions is gauging average user experience.

[edm0nd]

Chase bank app wont even load on my GrapheneOS lol

[HybridStatAnim8]

From what I recall, you need to enable exploit protection compatibility mode for that app, and it should work just fine.

[allthetime]

I want to run graphene but I make android apps and need to test on device with a somewhat standard setup… login with google, etc. is this reasonable to do with graphene?

[HybridStatAnim8]

Yes. GrapheneOS maintains 99% app compatibility, and the 1% that is lacking is due to apps using incredibly misguided and nonsensical "antiabuse" mechanisms.

GrapheneOS is often better for testing apps due to it being trivial to test with and without google services, most of the hardening options can be used for debugging and provide a crash log to determine what failed, and there is an easily accessible log viewer available in app info.

[toxicunderGroov]

I'd get a 2nd phone for that and it never leaves the house/location - living inside a bag with conductive material

[Cider9986]

Yes, GOS has excellent compatibility with Google. The play services are sandboxed like a normal app and work great.

[StrangeSound]

Does this mean I could install Google wallet? I feel like this would be the only thing really stopping me.

[subscribed]

Yes you can install and use it (I hold my passes, tickets and loyalty cards in there), BUT payments won't work for now because Google says malware-ridden Oreo handset is safe and secure, but phone without ad delivery network running in the privileged mode isn't.

There are alternatives for payments (scroll the thread, maybe look up on GOS discussion site).

[Cider9986]

No, unfortunately.

If you live in the EU then you can use curve pay which can tap to pay.

Why is no tap to pay significant enough to stop you from switching to a phone that is private and secure? You can just carry a card and tap—they're tiny.

[nicce]

Hmm, you should have cheaper and separate phone for work anyway?

[allthetime]

It is my cheaper separate phone. Main phone is iPhone which I can test iOS on. Android is mostly for testing, and backup/utility on long trips.

[sharts]

Makes you wonder who are clown employees coming up with these nonsense decisions

[ddejohn]

What are you using for cell service? Been wanting to switch to GOS for years, but I've also been really uninterested in having to find a new service provider (currently using fi).

[yogthos]

Same, I've got a Pixel 9 and GrapheneOS works perfectly on it. I really love having full control over the OS on my phone and being able to decide what actually runs on it.

[mFixman]

What's the status of banking apps, Google / Microsoft authenticator, and Google Wallet? Those were the things preventing me from abandoning stock Android.

[herrherrmann]

You can check this crowdsourced list for the compatibility of banking apps: https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/privsec.dev/blob/main/content...

Authenticators should work normally, as far as I know (unless Google Authenticator does anything special). Can’t say anything about Google Wallet. There might be more lists/forums where people share which setups are (not) working well for them.

In general, I had these concerns as well until a few months ago. But I am much more optimistic these days that things will just work well out of the box (have read many positive sentiments in blog posts and here on Hacker News).

[nsonha]

would it have the desktop mode and linux terminal? That's the only reason I'm eyeing a Pixel

[a022311]

Yep, I've used both. Desktop mode isn't exactly there yet, but hopefully with the general availability it will get with Android 17, it'll smoothen out. As for the Linux terminal I ended up sticking with a fork which provides a few extra features (https://github.com/outlawsanzhang/koiTerminal)

[nsonha]

I have a samsung too, I only really need the dex mode in so far as I need the wired external screen support. Gonna run terminal or vnc fullscreen anyway

[synergy20]

hold on, are you saying graphenos has no ads everywhere? I need swap it in then

[nicman23]

yeah the pixel 10 pro - which i have - only saving grace is graphene..