[ceejayoz]

> For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop.

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_Distr...

> The Hiibel decision was narrow in that it applied only to states that have stop and identify statutes. Consequently, individuals in states without such statutes cannot be lawfully arrested solely for refusing to identify themselves during a Terry stop.

[lwansbrough]

That case is about Terry stops, not about failure to identify when operating a motor vehicle.

A Terry stop includes detainments of pedestrians, who do not have an obligation to identify in most states.

[ceejayoz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

> When police stop an automobile, this is known as a traffic stop.

They can't pull you over without reason in the first place.

[lwansbrough]

Yeah you’re doing the thing I suggested people don’t do.

It doesn’t matter if they have RS for the detainment (a reason for the stop), once the traffic stop is underway you must identify.

If you feel as though the detainment was illegal, you can sue after the fact. There’s no point in trying to litigate the situation with the officer.

[ceejayoz]

> It doesn’t matter if they have RS for the detainment (a reason for the stop), once the traffic stop is underway you must identify.

Again:

> Consequently, individuals in states without such statutes cannot be lawfully arrested solely for refusing to identify themselves during a Terry stop.

It is legal for a state to require you to do so, but some have not done so.

[lwansbrough]

Again, this case is about Terry stops. Not traffic stops.

If you have been detained in a motor vehicle you are in control of, you must identify.

[ceejayoz]

> Again, this case is about Terry stops. Not traffic stops.

A traffic stop is a Terry stop. It's within the circle on the Venn diagram.

Stop-and-frisk of a pedestrian is also a Terry stop.

[ibejoeb]

Hiible wasn't operating a vehicle; he was standing outside, near it. It was not a traffic stop.

And just for clarity, a Terry stop is any brief investigative detention, not just those that arise from traffic stops.

[ceejayoz]

> Hiible wasn't operating a vehicle…

So? Some Terry stops are vehicle-based, others are not; the ruling applies to both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

"When police stop an automobile, this is known as a traffic stop."

[apwheele]

Terry stops != traffic stop

You are required to provide a license to operate a vehicle.

[ceejayoz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

"When police stop an automobile, this is known as a traffic stop."

> You are required to provide a license to operate a vehicle.

And the police are required to have probable cause to believe you are operating it without such a license to stop you for that. Thus making it… a Terry stop!