[lwansbrough]

Yeah you’re doing the thing I suggested people don’t do.

It doesn’t matter if they have RS for the detainment (a reason for the stop), once the traffic stop is underway you must identify.

If you feel as though the detainment was illegal, you can sue after the fact. There’s no point in trying to litigate the situation with the officer.

[ceejayoz]

> It doesn’t matter if they have RS for the detainment (a reason for the stop), once the traffic stop is underway you must identify.

Again:

> Consequently, individuals in states without such statutes cannot be lawfully arrested solely for refusing to identify themselves during a Terry stop.

It is legal for a state to require you to do so, but some have not done so.

[lwansbrough]

Again, this case is about Terry stops. Not traffic stops.

If you have been detained in a motor vehicle you are in control of, you must identify.

[ceejayoz]

> Again, this case is about Terry stops. Not traffic stops.

A traffic stop is a Terry stop. It's within the circle on the Venn diagram.

Stop-and-frisk of a pedestrian is also a Terry stop.

[lwansbrough]

That’s not the point. The point is that a traffic stop is a traffic stop. Traffic stops, while they are Terry stops, also have separate governing rules, such as the fact that there is a failure to identify while operating a motor vehicle statute in every state.

[ceejayoz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

> As of April 2008, 23 other states had similar laws. Additional states (including Arizona, Texas, South Dakota and Oregon) have such laws just for motorists, which penalize the failure to present a driver license during a traffic stop.

A state may require it. A state does not have to require it.

(To be clear, I'm handing over my license when asked regardless. There's just no apparent law applying universally to all 50 states that says I have to.)

[lwansbrough]

And again, this is about stop and identify, which again covers both pedestrians and motor vehicle operators but does not preclude the requirement to identify oneself when operating a motor vehicle, which is covered by different statutes.

[ibejoeb]

But not all Terry stops are traffic stops. The case you're citing wasn't a traffic stop.

[ceejayoz]

The Terry ruling establishes a test that applies to all Terry stops, not just some.

And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

> As of April 2008, 23 other states had similar laws. Additional states (including Arizona, Texas, South Dakota and Oregon) have such laws just for motorists, which penalize the failure to present a driver license during a traffic stop.