[smacktoward]

The problem is that the pricing puts it into a weird space in the market. If you want to use it as a laptop, you have to add one of the covers (the $120 Touch Cover or $130 Type Cover) so you have a keyboard, and that puts the price of the package over $1,000. You can get a "real" laptop (even a Macbook Air!) for less than that.

An argument could be made that Surface Pro isn't just a laptop, but a laptop plus a tablet, in which case the appropriate price comparison would be the cost of a Macbook and an iPad. But the extra horsepower the Surface would require to run like a laptop would mean lower battery life and greater weight. So you get a tablet, but one that's less appealing than a tablet designed to only be a tablet.

[Bud]

Not just a keyboard. If you want to use it like a real laptop, you will need a mouse or other pointing device, as well. Touch on a vertically-oriented screen is not going to cut it for laptop-ish kinds of uses, as has been proven in years and years of UX studies.

Clarifying edit: Touch is great if you are holding the device in your hands, of course, like an iPad. But once you are using a keyboard and Surface's kickstand and trying to run Windows apps, which is the use case we're discussing here, you'll need a mouse or a trackpad, just like you do to run Windows on any other device. Windows apps are not touch friendly and that didn't magically change just because Ballmer is trying to enter the market that he publicly mocked in 2007 (iPhone) and 2010 (iPad).

[potatolicious]

Both the touch and type covers have a trackpad built in - it's surprising that they didn't include these items in the package, considering how core they are to the Surface experience

[cooldeal]

>because Ballmer is trying to enter the market that he publicly mocked in 2007 (iPhone) and 2010 (iPad).

I'm tired of these kinds of statements. The golden rule is that companies' employee publicly have to put down their competitors' new strategies. Imagine if Balmer said the iPad is great it's going to kill us, or if Jobs said 7" tablets are good but we'll make only in two years, so wait for us to make it. Or even Andy Rubin saying that Android UI is laggy compared to iOS, fix coming in 18 months. All of them(except maybe Jobs) would be summarily fired or atleast will be forced to recant their statements immediately on threat of being fired. It's almost part of their job to publicly mock their competitors, or their shareholders will dump the stock.

The more puzzling thing to me is, why do so many people actually think that these people say what they really believe and really believe what they say?

[tluyben2]

> The more puzzling thing to me is, why do so many people actually think that these people say what they really believe and really believe what they say?

Because most people here are developers? In most manager courses one of the lessons is; focus not on what people say but why they say it. Those things are often not the same thing. Ballmer (etc) are in the eye of the press, which means that not only do his words influence the stock price, they also influence the 1000s of people working for the company and their partners. All need to have their eye on the ball (MS MS MS) meaning the rest of the world is just shit. No matter if it is/he thinks it is or not; that's not relevant at all.

[gonehome]

I'm not sure if I agree that that's what happened in this case. I think Ballmer actually believed what he said which is why they were so slow to react and is a part of the problem.

Google's reaction is a good example. After the iPhone launched in 2007 They immediately threw out the original blackberry like android device they were planning to release first and focused on their more iPhone like variant. Microsoft just mocked Apple and did nothing.

As far as the surface goes I think it's an interesting idea and could be great, but they're doing annoying marketing things again that are hurting it. Making people pay an extra $120 in order to get the actual product is annoying, why sell the crippled version without the keypad when that's the entire point of it? Just include the keypad at the lower price point instead.

[erikpukinskis]

> Microsoft just mocked Apple and did nothing.

I'm no Microsoft fan, but this is hyperbole. They release Windows Phone 7, widely regarded as a credible response, two and a half years after the iPhone came out. That's not exactly record time, but my guess is some serious hammers came down at Microsoft when iPhone launched.

[gonehome]

I saw the two and a half year delay as the result of doing nothing until they realized they'd made a mistake.

[recoiledsnake]

>The problem is that the pricing puts it into a weird space in the market.

Edit:Just like usual it looks like the notable number of anti-'M$' haters on HN are flagging this article down the front page just like they do to any article that is not hating on MS(resulting in some legit sites getting fully permabanned). Stay classy HN.

Original Comment:

That's the thing, it defines a new place in the market because it has new characteristics, just like the iPad did when it started and many were calling it just a bigger iPod Touch or a smaller crippled laptop and were saying it would fail.

I think it's especially good for developers when you can run the full Visual Studio and Eclipse etc. but still portable, not to mention the Enterprise where it fully integrates with AD and group policy and can support the full Office Suite including Outlook.The digitizer and the pen is a nice bonus. In some companies, tablets have a stigma that they're entertainment devices meant for Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja, and thus management doesn't like buying them(except for senior management). With the Surface Pro, it might be seen as a productivity device that you can use while traveling and also they can lock them down as much as you want to with group policy, do updates and deployments just like the regular desktop PCs and laptops.

It'd be okay for couch surfing, I have a HP Touch pad which roughly the same size and weight and it isn't too bad, but you could probably buy a 7" tablet on the cheap if couch surfing is your thing. So, for some people this is a good choice and I think the pricing is on the premium to make it feel like a premium device.

I think one of the big points is the portability factor, thus it may not replace a 13.3" Ultrabook or a 7" tablet for all, but for some, it can and for some others, they will just buy it in addition to them.

My only concern is the battery life, they could swap out that i5 for a Clover Trail Atom but I think they want to keep the power. Maybe there will be a cheaper lighter version later with a new Atom.

>An argument could be made that Surface Pro isn't just a laptop, but a laptop plus a tablet in which case the appropriate price comparison would be the cost of a Macbook and an iPad.

I don't think pricing ever works like that. But anyway, if you want to think it that way, they're giving a discount for the lower battery life and greater weight.

One other issue about pricing is that they can't use their tens of billions of dollars to subsidize it, it'd just kill the OEMs. With this price, the OEMs have some breathing room to make competing devices.

I think quite some folks will have a desktop for PC gaming, Laptop for couch work, Surface for working while not at home, and a 7" tablet for couch/web surfing(or a ~5" phone).