[spacedcowboy]

Ed Milliband for PM!

He's about the only one of the lot of them that actually understands that the point of being in power is to change things for the better. He's done an absolutely smashing job with energy, and I'd love him to get the opportunity to do the same sort of real improvements on the rest of the economy.

[gadders]

Is this satire? We have steel plants and potteries closing down because they can't afford to be run due to energy prices.

But that's OK because we can import from China or wherever and it counts against their (dirtier) emissions than ours.

[spacedcowboy]

We have lots of things closing down, we need to sort that out, but burning the fucking world so we can live a life of plenty right now while screwing up every child and their own children even worse is not the way to do it.

And I don't give a shit if "China is worse". They are, because they started from a worse position, but they're improving a fuck sight faster than us. If your worldview is way too right-wing and self-centered that fucking China is a shining beacon in the darkness by comparison, maybe it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror.

[gadders]

Oh, China is by no means a beacon. I just don't think we should be (effectively) outsourcing pollution to them. In the last 8 years, China has emitted more CO2 than the UK has in the last 250.

[spacedcowboy]

China is approximately 40x the size of the UK, and has 20x the people. Using "the last 250 years" is not in any way a comparable term.

The UK was emitting (in 2000) roughly what China is emitting today, 9.36 tonnes/capita then for the UK vs 9.24 tonnes/capita now for China. China is behind the UK on the curve from industrialisation to clean industrialisation but the "250 years" thing is just designed to present them in a bad light.

Neither of them are close to the USA, which is running at 13.8 tonnes/capita right now.