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That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks.

It’s protectionism all the way down I guess.

Though I see tons of US pickup trucks in the Netherlands, and have seen even lifted ones in Germany too for that matter.

wongarsu 8 days ago

In Germany it's mostly US service members and their families who drive US pickup trucks. They can ship personal vehicles to Germany without having to make them fully compliant with German regulations, and generally seem to like them

Away from US bases, pickup trucks are very rare in Germany. The closest thing you will see are 3-ton flatbed trucks as work vehicles, or something like a VW Transporter. But generally tradespeople prefer vans, and commuters prefer hatchbacks or SUVs (which are bad enough)

https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pi...

Despite failing to meet EU safety rules, they can be imported under Individual Vehicle Approval - """ The use of IVA for so-called ‘off-road’ vehicles (N1G) has more than doubled since 2019, rising from 2,900 new registrations in that year to 6,800 in 2022, with Dodge Ram pick-up trucks accounting for approx 60% of IVAs in this category over these four years, 2019 to 2022 """

Anyway, my point was that you can buy American trucks in Europe right now, so op may be able to get this $30k Ford.

For what it's worth, I have a big soft spot for trucks with long beds and normal-height hoods! Something like a Chevy S10 or 90's Tacoma is really useful! I just don't like biking with my kids by drivers who can't seem them.

ramgine 7 days ago

I’ve wanted a kei truck for a while. Then when you park it next to suburban mom’s expedition/escalade/luxury bus it’s so tiny it looks unsafe. Unfortunately I live in a city where small town trips are difficult without getting on a 70+ mph freeway and competing with those vehicles

> That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers

Is there a good international metric for how much a given country’s car buyers pay extra due to tariffs, duties, protectionist regulation, et cetera?

cucumber3732842 8 days ago

Lamenting the difficulty of registering kei trucks is kind of rich coming from the patron saint of "the roads are horribly dangerous and we need to do everything to safen them up and drivers can bear whatever that costs"

Protectionism when I don't like it, public safety when I do I guess.

In any case, they're pretty easy to register if you don't lick the boot. Whatever state you're in typically isn't gonna come after you for tax evasion for an object they aren't in the business of taxing if you catch my drift.

Lvl999Noob 8 days ago

> if you catch my drift

Not OP but I don't. What do you mean? How do you make the kei truck an object they aren't in the business of taxing when they are, in fact, in that very business? Or maybe I have some deeper confusion about the issue here.

> What do you mean?

I think they mean it’s easier than many of us suspect to register an imported car as something close enough and get away with it. The most challenging bit would probably be maintenance.

steve-atx-7600 8 days ago

I live outside of Austin TX and have seen one regularly parked outside a house in my neighborhood for 5 years now. Has a license plate. If I had to bet, I’d say it’s registered (taxes paid, has required insurance) because police around here have camera systems in their cars that scan plates looking for unregistered vehicles (found out the hard way one time when I forgot to renew).

cucumber3732842 8 days ago

I meant just register it in one of the slightly less than half of states that let you do that.

Even if some Karen narcs on you to the tax man unless it's an especially slow day the tax man will say something along the lines of "It's a what? We don't register those"

The registration/tax people aren't in the business of giving a shit about the nuances of the vehicle code. They're in the business of collecting money. It's not like you're dodging meaningful fees on an entire truck fleet. You're dodging what would be a zero to them since they'd never let you register it. What are they gonna do send you one of those "we believe you owe us X, pay up or we'll use the full force of the state to fucking stomp you and ruin your life" letters with X= $0. I'm sure they'll get right on that.

toast0 8 days ago

If you title and register your kei car in washington (where you can register it, usually) and keep it and drive it in California (where you can't register it), there's a chance some officer who hates kei cars is going to find it and raise a stink. And then you've got to pay fines, and maybe your car gets towed and you have to flatbed it out of state. Plus fines, I'm sure.

If it's cheap enough or fun enough, it might be worth the risk; but I don't know that I would risk it.

I know someone who got pulled over, and then a ticket for driving in California with washington plates and changing 3 lanes at once. "Anybody who drives like that must live here"

Not sure what a kei car would be doing on a freeway 3 lanes over though.

yellowapple 8 days ago

That depends a lot on the state. I hear in Utah it's very easy to register a kei truck/van as street-legal. Here in Nevada it's quite the opposite, at least according to those I've talked to who've attempted it.

My understanding is they generally need to be 25+ years old, but this may vary (or I am out of date?) https://www.kei-trucks.com/blogs/kei-trucks/state-restrictio...

I think OP’s point is nobody is going to verify if it’s 10 or 25 years old.

throwaway2037 8 days ago

    > American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks.

It is crazy when I hear people say they want to drive a kei truck on American roads. American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight. The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection.

But... I'm allowed to walk, bike, or ride a motorcycle on American streets...

throwawaypath 8 days ago

It is crazy when I hear people say they want to walk, bike, or ride a motorcycle on American roads. American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight. Walking, biking, or riding a motorcycle does not offer the necessary crash protection.

xnx 8 days ago

People already ride motorcycles so why not let them drive in much safer kei trucks?

> The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection

Eh, if you aren’t doing a lot of highway driving, I think this could be fine? Especially in a city where collisions should be low speed.

Put another way—and this is a genuine question—is the person who wants a Kei truck better off spending tens of thousands of dollars more for safety rather than investing that in their health, happiness or education?

throwaway2037 8 days ago

You raise some interesting points. A different way to look at safety: Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? "Oh, it's expensive to have cars with crash safety. Let's reduce our materials cost."

> Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety?

More safety, always, is usually a feel-good measure. If people aren’t trading in their old cars for the newer, safer ones, because the latter are too expensive, it’s not actually helping people. Same if the cheapest car someone can get for their commute is bankrupting them.

throwaway2037 8 days ago

I did more research on this matter and found a this PDF: https://dor.georgia.gov/document/document/policy-bulletin-mv...

    > Kei Vehicles are not compliant with U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Therefore, they are not “street legal.” Kei Vehicles are barred from titling and registration.

I found other sources on Google saying you can cheat this rule by finding a state that does not strictly enforce FMVSS rules for titling and registration. Then, you can (illegally) drive the kei truck in another state. To be clear: This is illegal, but you need to be caught. Also, it looks like there are auto body shops that will modify a kei truck/car to make it street legal. I have a seen a bunch of YouTubers driving kei trucks/cars with California license plates. Thus, I assume the work was done to make them street legal.

Thus, we can conclude that FMVSS prevents a race-to-the-bottom in vehicular safety for cars in the US. Honestly, I expect all highly developed nations to have similar rules. Why? For the safety of children, more than anything. Even if a parent wants to drive an unsafe car, most societies will prioritise the safety of child passengers over the "liberty" of the parent/owner/driver.

greedo 8 days ago

Sorry, but this is a crock.

1. Seat belts - pretty sound investment. 2. Air Bags - excellent investment. 3. Crumple zones - outstanding investment. 4. ABS - outstanding investment. 5. Backup cameras - not worth the money if you don't value the lives of small kids. 6. Lane sensors - pretty handy, especially as your reflexes start to slow with age.

Why aren't performance improvements scrutinized the same way? How often are huge trucks given a pass despite never having anything in their truckbeds?

ChiperSoft 8 days ago

They did before consumer safety regulations went into affect

greedo 8 days ago

I know it's anecdata, but the number of high-speed crashes in my college-town are amazing. You have a 45mph zone, people routinely speed 5-10 over that and boom, dramatic crashes.

vondur 8 days ago

For driving around town to do stuff, I'd say they are fine and would love to have one. I doubt they would be able to safely drive on our freeways here though.

yellowapple 8 days ago

> American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight.

That has nothing to do with actual consumer preference and everything to do with regulatory capture.

snowpid 8 days ago

vw offers a electro pickup for 36k excluding tax (43k EUR with tax, ). https://www.volkswagen-nutzfahrzeuge.de/de/modelle/transport...

Its less than 10x

cheschire 8 days ago

I mean, you can see how a kastenwagen nutzfahrzeug is a very different vehicle from a consumer mid-size pickup, right?

Sure, technically some would call the vehicle you linked a pickup, and technically German law still identifies the consumer pickup truck as a nutzfahrzeug instead of a PKW, but it doesn’t feel like you’re making a best effort to meet GP in the middle.

gyulai 8 days ago

The distinction gets at something interesting though, and it's a weird intermingling of culture and politics. I think a truck as owned by a consumer, and as an American would understand the word, is, at least in part, a lifestyle statement derived from maybe overprovisioning on the horsepower. Such a lifestyle statement in Germany seems to be perfectly socially acceptable when it ties in with luxury and doing your "civic duty" by buying German, but it clearly ruffles feathers and meets with political headwind when it ties in with the culture and financial constraint of the "commoner".

> lifestyle statement derived from maybe overprovisioning on the horsepower

For what it’s worth, that horsepower is billed for towing.

red-iron-pine 8 days ago

most truck owners don't tow; studies show it's < 2 times a year.

the horsepower is for phallic compensation reasons

cheschire 8 days ago

In my experience the resistance seems to come from the sense of “waste” that comes from buying a specialized vehicle. Anecdotally the folks I talk to (all blue-collar “commoners”) are overly focused on buying the eierlegende Wollmilchsau[0] vehicle. They view specialized vehicles, especially luxury-priced specialized vehicles, as an unnecessary waste.

Does this relate with your experience? It sounds like your perspective is broader than mine and more informed.

Edit: oof two downvotes for trying to have a conversation and expand my understanding of a culture. Vielen dank.

0: definition for the English speakers: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eierlegende_Wollmilchsau

gyulai 8 days ago

I was referring to something slightly different namely that price, horsepower, and socioeconomic status are all monotonically increasing functions of each other when you look at any given lineup of cars -- say you're comparing the different company cars owned by a given company, the different cars in the lineup of a given manufacturer, or the cars parked outside the venue when there's a wedding and the extended family has been invited. The cars themselves are all "trivial" variations of each other. I've noticed this more strongly in Germany than in other countries I've lived in (which is a few). You don't get the kind of variety of styles and designs you would get in the U.S. and many cars that are commonplace in the U.S. like a Ford Mustang or a Dodge RAM, when you encounter it in Germany, would instantly read as "someone desparate to get noticed".

But the variation in horsepower is still there. It's not like cars with 300 HP are forbidden in Germany. It's just that they need to fit in the continuum. The 300HP BMW is the CEO's car, and its existence is justified by the fact that the other top managers drive the 200HP version which is otherwise almost the exact same car, which are in turn justified by the fact that the middle managers drive the 120HP version, and if you're a new-hire individual contributor then anything more than 90HP would cause a scandal if word got out. (I'm painting a mental picture here; obviously not making a universal claim).

I think that culture is part of the reason why a $30k electric pickup truck would ruffle feathers so much, and it's a particularly stupid reason, but I think it's real.

The "Kastenwagen" example from above escapes that calculus by clearly being something that stands completely outside of any established continuum of this kind. The rare Ford Mustang or imported Dodge RAM that you sometimes see in Germany is similarly socially/politically acceptable on the grounds that it would either be expensive as hell, or a car buff's hobby. Both of those cases mean the owner has duly paid for their ticket to the high-horsepower social club (either financially, or by having a respectable hobby and putting in the work), whereas a $30k electric pickup that you can just buy would come across as "cheating the system".

laurencerowe 8 days ago

Cars in the US cost pretty much the same before taxes as in Europe. If Ford can build this truck in the US for this cost there seems little reason it couldn’t build it in the EU for a similar cost. Whether it will offer this body style or not is of course another question (Ford have stopped selling all regular cars in US, only offering crossovers, SUVs and trucks.) This is rather different to the perceived threat of cheap imports from China.