[bensyverson]

I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity. By making Gemini an implementation detail, they leave the door open to swap it out for Anthropic or OpenAI without end-users even knowing or caring. So I think they're creating leverage in any future negotiation.

[t0mas88]

And at the same time they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers? Which would not even be true if this was an Apple product built on the models of Google, just like the DMA does not force them to pick a different datacenter of office cleaning provider.

[matthewfcarlson]

There's a post here: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...

Take it with a grain of salt but I don't think it's other AI providers that Apple is upset about. The DMA would require users to be able install any openclaw like thing onto their device with access to everything that Siri can access today. There are all sorts of arguments to be made here but I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here.

[Gigachad]

Undoubtedly Meta would install themselves as an "AI agent" and then just scrape your whole device for data they can use.

[troupo]

What good experience? Siri has sucked for over 10 years, completely degrading in the last few, with no way to change it to a more capable assistant.

Apple doesn't care about "offering a good experience". Apple cares about vendor lock in. It pisses off even me, a long-time (18 years and counting) Apple user.

[rTX5CMRXIfFG]

You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion

Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting?

[troupo]

> You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion

It wasn't me who said "I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here."

> Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting?

"How dare you criticize the company whose products you're using"

[Gareth321]

People can already install applications and give those applications access to their files, photos, camera, microphone, etc. I don't see the fundamental difference, provided the user chooses to provide access to this data.

[tansanrao]

Looks like the problem with DMA has more to do with giving full access to other providers outside of the on-device + private cloud compute architecture. The way I interpret the newsroom post [1], Apple doesn't want to give third-party providers full access to user data when the third-party providers cannot run on private cloud compute for privacy reasons, but the EU wants them to offer the choice anyway.

[1]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...

[troupo]

> they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers

They don't claim that. All they said is "later in the EU as we look into privacy and security" after spending two hours saying how private and secure everything is.

DMA would force them to allow usage from other apps than their own and other assitants than Siri, especially for on-device models.

Edit I stand somewhat corrected but it's regular Apple bullshit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48451012

[xnx]

> I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity

It didn't work out well for Yahoo.com. It turned out that Google Search was the value and yahoo.com just skin around it. It might be the same for Apple. Gemini is the valuable part, what particular device you use it on matters less.

[kennywinker]

Google search was leaps and bounds better than any other search engine when it came along and dominated. Yahoo couldn’t build their own, and nobody else they could buy from compared.

As i understand it, no LLM is miles ahead of the others right now, especially when it comes to simple agentic stuff. Hell, Qwen3.6-35B-A3 quantized to 3bits running on an 8 year old consumer GPU handles most agentic stuff fine, if a bit slow.

Differences in LLMs boil down to mostly the harness and the compute to run the models. Even for high complexity tasks like coding, the differences between openai, anthropic, google, and the bigger qwen models aren’t that dramatic.

[y1n0]

We’re clearly in a different situation at the moment. Google is far from the only useful back end language model provider.

[raincole]

iPhone is a hardware and Apple is a hardware company. So the 'skin' they sell is much more valuable than Yahoo.

[Danox]

In time Apple will swap it out for a in house model like many other things they’re swapped out in the last 25 years, Apple appears to be a company that doesn’t waste money and seem to execute long range projects if necessary I don’t think the Google models will be there for long. I think they will be swapped out when the M series GPUs get to the performance level they want.

[billbrown]

I thought this seemed significant at the time: https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983

[camillomiller]

It’s a bit like when Steve Jobs turned down acquiring Dropbox telling them they’re just a feature, not a product

[kennywinker]

And then they created icloud and now it makes them like $110 billion a year while dropbox makes like $2.5b. I think history has proven them right.

(Ok so $110b is all services revenue not just icloud, but icloud’s a solid chunk of that)

[camillomiller]

I was in the beat at the time. If you had read what pundits were saying at the time you would find countless criticism of Apple's hybris etc... Sounds a LOT like what we read today about LLMs.

[MASNeo]

That’s exactly what a model should be: Implementation detail.