[mattlondon]

I think you have your numbers backwards regarding health.

The US spends more (16% Vs 10 GDP), but preventable mortality, life expectancy, people living with chronic conditions etc are all worse than other developed nations: https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/26/a-comparative-ana... Plus the risk of being a victim of violence is higher in the US - you are 400% to 600% more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK, 700% more likely to be raped, 400% more likely to be robbed etc (https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/internat...) so you're gonna need that hospital treatment more.

As for pay the legal minimum hourly rate in the UK is approx $16.90 Vs the US minimum of $7.25

Median annual salaries seems to be approx $62k US Vs $53k UK so it is 17% higher not 400%. When you adjust for purchasing parity (https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPEX@WEO/OEMDC) it's more like 62k Vs 58k, or approx 8% more in the US. There are plenty of high-tech jobs in London, especially in AI & biotech recently (e.g. as an example I am quite "mid-to-senior" level (i.e. 2 to 3 promos away from "director" type levels, so more headroom.for sure) and my annual total comp is about 8-9 times the median UK salary for example, somewhere in the $450-500k range and I am not even an AI researcher, just an engineer writing web apps at a Big Co)

Can't deny that some parts of the US are warmer, but there are also colder places. UK is actually very mild climate-wise given it's latitude. I am married to a US citizen and our kids are dual national but there is zero zero zero chance of us ever living in the US for the above reasons. I work with loads of Americans who have permanently relocated to London, but it goes in both directions.

[diordiderot]

> risk of being a victim of violence is higher in the US

You really gotta look at how those numbers break down.

Who's killing who and where. Be in the right places and you're much safer than anywhere in Europe

[ben_w]

Have you considered doing the same in reverse?

Because sure, if you look at the right parts of the US, you can find zero homicide rate due to there not being any residents. You can also do this in Europe. It tells you nothing.

What may give you a hint about relative safety is that the UK police don't bother with being regularly equipped with firearms, because they don't need to be.

[diordiderot]

Side note, UK police harass people for 'non-crime hate incidents' and put people on terror lists for being critical of protected ideologies.

Judges give longer sentences for mean tweets than hoarding child pornography or months long torture and rape of children.

More euros die of heat stroke than Americans die from gun violence.

Edit: NHS waitlists are double digit months to years. You have one of the worst birthing outcomes in the OECD. You have relatively poor cancer treatment outcomes

I won't take any lecturing on societal ills from such a perverted system.

[trumpdong]

Can you elaborate on "being critical of protected ideologies", what does that mean in concrete terms?

[ben_w]

> Side note, UK police harass people for 'non-crime hate incidents' and put people on terror lists for being critical of protected ideologies.

The US has recently declared being "anti-fascist" as a terror organisation. Bonus points: antifa isn't even an organisation.

> Judges give longer sentences for mean tweets than hoarding child pornography or months long torture and rape of children.

Citation needed.

> More euros die of heat stroke than Americans die from gun violence.

Yes, gun violence is grossly overrepresented in the fears of most people, compared to how big the risks actually are.

And yet, the life expectancy in the US (79.3) is younger than EU as a whole (81.7), and also in the UK (81.3).

> Edit: NHS waitlists are double digit months to years. You have one of the worst birthing outcomes in the OECD. You have relatively poor cancer treatment outcomes

Given the US has the lower life expectancy, this is unfortunate… for you, not for everyone else.

Also, for birthing outcomes, the phrase "throwing stones in glass houses" comes to mind:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?time=2001...

[diordiderot]

> if you look at the right parts of the US

No, I’m saying almost the opposite.

Crime in the US is highly concentrated. A large share is committed by relatively small groups, in specific places, and follows a power-law pattern rather than being evenly spread across the country.

There are large, fully developed, highly populated parts of the US where you are very safe. Often moreso than places people assume are “safer” because they are outside America.

[ben_w]

> Crime in the US is highly concentrated. A large share is committed by relatively small groups, in specific places, and follows a power-law pattern rather than being evenly spread across the country.

Do you think crime in Europe is evenly spread across the whole continent? Or even that it's a constant rate within any geographical division of any nation in Europe?

Small groups doing crimes mostly to each other is not a novel thing unique to the USA. The (approximately) power-law relation is the same in places where stats exist to study the question: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40163-017-0069-x/...

I used to live in the UK, and in my 35 years there I was victimised a total of twice, one of which was an unattended bike left outdoors overnight; the safe middle-class south of Havant just wasn't targeted by roving gangs from the "rough" estate of Leigh Park in north Havant, even though that was absolutely walking distance, and a short walk at that.

[bloqs]

So let me get this straight, you have to 'the break the numbers down' to contextualise US safety, but you don't have to 'break the numbers down' to contextualise European safety?

Are you Tucker Carlson?

[hparadiz]

Why do people on HN throw these stats out comparing poor people to poor people? We are all tech workers on HN. I'm not living in Alabama. When I compare my living situation I'm comparing my premium healthcare in Los Angeles to whatever the fuck you guys are doing.

Pretty much all those stats are irrelevant.

Seriously 62k? Try 3.5 times that and then you're in the ballpark. My healthcare expenses for the past few years have been less than 2% of my salary.

Y'all don't realize just how intensily our poor rural areas bring down the average while our HCOL areas tend to set the world wide standard you're trying to catch up to.

[mattlondon]

Please read my comment - my London tech worker total comp is about 8 times that 62k and I am coasting mid-level. The poor folks in the UK are pulling the average down too.

Oh and healthcare costs in the UK are obviously zero percent, paid for out of general taxation (there is no dedicated "NHS tax"). So those unemployed poor people with literally nothing pulling down the averages get better-than-US health outcomes from the NHS, and the exact same level of treatment as anyone else using the NHS would get. I get additional private healthcare too through my employer and it is also zero cost to me. No co-payments or any other things like that at all - all zero cost to me.

[hparadiz]

At that point there's no material difference. You can seek out the best treatment anywhere on the planet. The point becomes moot.

[mattlondon]

Precisely - your original point is indeed moot.

[matthewmacleod]

To quote – I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.

[hparadiz]

California offers basically free healthcare to those with low income.

[microtonal]

You keep on moving the goal posts, plus you don't seem to care about the other people in your country.

[joe463369]

Some 'people on HN' might have some slight sympathy for people aren't wealthy tech workers. Maybe even the sort of people who live in Alabama.

[defrost]

Obviously, to the meanest intellect at least, it is because they are comparing an entire country to an entire country and not a few privileged here to a couple of elites there.