It's so surprising that despute so many screams "China" in western media in the last 15 years, it happens in the west, but in China it's free to use any OS without any negative consequences. Why? What's going on?
China has a whole other level of control going on. You’re free to use any mobile OS you want because they’re able to monitoring every internet connection, see what you’re downloading and block any and all content they deem unsuitable with no recourse. They can also arrest you and move you to a labor camp with little recourse.
I’m not defending the UK police’s actions here but “it’s just as bad as China!” is a refrain you see often that rarely adds up.
There isn't even any indication of police involvement. "The authorities" could mean anything from the local police service to the National Crime Agency, to the National Cyber Security Centre (part of GCHQ) and anything in between.
Tbh I feel what you say it’s just to feel good about how bad our situation is. Oh, their situation is much worse, don’t worry about us, we are so much better.
yup, me and my whole family using VPNs on there phones were arrested and placed in labor camp, I'm writing this now from camp, sending it to gateway on pigeon...
but seriously, these people fear mongering arbor China are completely clueless, China absolutely doesn't care about you unless you go against gov, nobody checked our phones at border, nobody bothered us, at the Beijing province border checks they noticed we didn't register our accommodation which is mandatory and just let us go on our trip anyway telling us to go to police after weekend where we met extremely laid-back police officers smoking under no smoking sign
been living there for years and the situation was same, I fucked up paperwork which would in US lead to detention and deportation, in China we always found solution, there is always workaround for rules, China doesn't care about you unless you do something extreme against the gov
I remember being on high horse about freedom and other BS regarding West vs china, but since COVID I'm more and more failing to see the difference, quite the opposite for West
The way Chinese and US treat foreigners are at two extremes. Simply from your example,
> didn't register our accommodation which is mandatory
>> Foreigner: just let us go on our trip anyway
>> Citizen: sent to detention and beaten to death [0]. Reverse ICE?
Police is friendly and laid back for foreigners, in China there are even foreigners advertising to call the police for you if you lost something, simply because police will be more responsible if a foreigner is involved. And they are also more flexible like your experience shows, which does not apply to citizens.
There are more examples, like gfw, for foreigner there are even volunteers at major airports helping you install VPN, while for citizens you can get fined or warned with an official record in your dossier.
Or like COVID you mentioned, during the lock-down period foreigners have prioritized access to foods and necessities. One extreme case I remember is a wealthy couple in Shanghai ran out of those things. And how did they get through? They happened to hire a Philippine nanny at the time, and that gives them priority, despite not officially registered like you. Imagine your gov prioritize your servant over you.
oh please, I lived in China 5+ years, plenty of Chinese breakm various laws and nobody is sending them to detention or beats to death, that's more like US thing
maybe visit China to have clue instead parroting someone's propaganda
and no, there are NOT volunteers helping you with VPN at airport, not sure what are you smoking
All I am saying is foreigners' experience does not necessarily reflect that of citizens, just like in the US the current ICE raids and immigration visa tighten up does not affect most citizens, but changed many foreigners' life forever.
I pick the previous linked case because what he did is exactly what you did, and I am not arguing for general law enforcement.
I go to major expos in China multiple times a year, and the volunteers are there, every time. You can find advertisements for sim cards, vpn services not only at airports, but also hotels, etc.
Not true the part about China, but yes Western countries do like to pretend they have a lot more freedom than they do.
If you can't criticize or protest Xi in China, try criticize or protesting the laws in rest of the world. Especially the things they do in the name of privacy, I remember UK jailing folks for FB posts, that's stuff that happens in third world countries.
Not that UK ever had much of a leg to stand on, US does the same now very scary.
For trips to any of the countries first thing I check is my socials and delete stuff that might get checked on airports now. This was apparently not supposed to happen in the developed world.
My friends still tell me it's not that bad, but it's just scary reading stuff on HN like this once a month, every month for the last few years.
Right… because your yap is not accessible to anyone in their country and they have a much higher level of control and tracking that makes a potential dissident less dangerous.
I’m not defending the US policy for a second, it’s totalitarian. But holding China up as a positive comparison to totalitarian impulses is missing the bigger picture.
> I remember UK jailing folks for FB posts, that's stuff that happens in third world countries.
The only cases this has happened has been over people actively calling for racial violence over an imagined scare - bunch of morons thought a muslim migrant killed someone, so they went on to riot, burn mosques, assault foreign looking people, etc; on day 2 it was revealed the perpetrator was a Britain born Christian son of foreign origins, but the morons didn't care, they had their excuse.
I struggle to think of many countries where calling for immediate violence, on Facebook or in public with placards, is acceptable. Or any reason why it should be.
Sure courts won but the arrest is the issue. Courts general also win in other democratic third world countries but the initial arrest is enough of an intimidation.
Also this is a slippery slope I remember one person you mentioned were bad but there was another which wasn't nearly as bad.
Also folks on the other side can say the same thing when you call them fascists or something.
Sure saying bad stuff is bad, but it's very very fucking slippery slope.
All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.
Another example from what you might consider hateful probably who went to jail and was acquitted but after a lengthy process.
Indeed, but police do this kind of thing in a lot of places. Didn't the US have multiple cases of people being arrested over comments on Kirk's death? It's not good, but cops on a power trip because you hurt their feelings is not a thing we can easily root out. Hence why courts matter.
> All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.
Not at all what hate speech means.
> Basically if China is 100% authoritarian, UK is atleast 70% there. They just need a leader to abuse these systems to come in power.
Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.
That's the problem mate, UK and US pretend they are free, democratic but the lived experience doesn't match up.
There are cases where things atleast have a decent ending but that's not even a given in so called free and democratic world.
The only constant is rights for people get stripped and reduced in the name of safety and security. And people consider politicians willing to given fake, and nonsensical answers as the democratic process.
How is that different from an authoritarian state?
> Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.
Just to note most people just get deplatformed for this stuff in china they don't get jailed. Since they control media China doesn't even care about putting you in an actual jail cell if you aren't a major active threat.
As for actual repercussions, people are getting shot at, put in jail with (even folks with green cards in US), and banned from travel (in UK).
I am not sure how that isn't 70% of the way there. But it's fine if it's already alright with you that you consider 50% authoritarianism Free.
I am certain you agree that this nonsense is on the rise. But I am also certain you just haven't considered how close it is to actual authoritarianism.
China isn't just shooting people who have said stuff against China I could get a visa and travel without too much hassle even after showcasing visible displeasure with the country's rules.
US and UK doesn't even like me mentioning them negatively if I am applying for a visa.
Idk I went to probably dozens of public protests here screaming no justice no peace, fuck the police and nothing ever happened to me, except a little tear-gas once in a while. I might be on some secret police lists not sure.
Living in Germany so UK might be much worse for all I know , but I would be surprised if Germany is the shining paragon for democracy now.
Germany tends to allow protests they know will have no effect. Try a Palestine protest - those are more dangerous to the regime. Also take note of the ratio of cops to protestors.
Maybe because in 50 western countries nobody bothers you and the 1 exception, the UK did some weird stuff with online policing. The courts don’t sentence for that even in the UK, all you hear about are police actions.
They’re also declining hard because of brexit and maybe fear public unrest.
And in China for dissent you go to a reeducation camp. Or maybe the China incidents aren’t newsworthy, just expected.
I’m not defending the UK police’s actions here but “it’s just as bad as China!” is a refrain you see often that rarely adds up.