Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by minraws 6 days ago
Not true the part about China, but yes Western countries do like to pretend they have a lot more freedom than they do.

If you can't criticize or protest Xi in China, try criticize or protesting the laws in rest of the world. Especially the things they do in the name of privacy, I remember UK jailing folks for FB posts, that's stuff that happens in third world countries.

Not that UK ever had much of a leg to stand on, US does the same now very scary.

For trips to any of the countries first thing I check is my socials and delete stuff that might get checked on airports now. This was apparently not supposed to happen in the developed world.

My friends still tell me it's not that bad, but it's just scary reading stuff on HN like this once a month, every month for the last few years.

4 comments

US now apparently asked your social media account including public access if you apply for a visa. Chinese don't care about that.
Well yeah, because they block outside social media networks…
The point is they don't care my yap on my social media unlike the other nation across the pond
Right… because your yap is not accessible to anyone in their country and they have a much higher level of control and tracking that makes a potential dissident less dangerous.

I’m not defending the US policy for a second, it’s totalitarian. But holding China up as a positive comparison to totalitarian impulses is missing the bigger picture.

not accessible, right, VPN in China cost less than a dollar, truly inaccessible service

tell me you know nothing about China without telling me you know nothing about China besides parroted propaganda

They give lighter censorship to foreigners (e.g allowing more VPNs) to lighten the image they get of the country.
> I remember UK jailing folks for FB posts, that's stuff that happens in third world countries.

The only cases this has happened has been over people actively calling for racial violence over an imagined scare - bunch of morons thought a muslim migrant killed someone, so they went on to riot, burn mosques, assault foreign looking people, etc; on day 2 it was revealed the perpetrator was a Britain born Christian son of foreign origins, but the morons didn't care, they had their excuse.

I struggle to think of many countries where calling for immediate violence, on Facebook or in public with placards, is acceptable. Or any reason why it should be.

I don't know I don't think they were jailed but some guy also got arrested for saying bad stuff about the King

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyenzdz66wo

Sure courts won but the arrest is the issue. Courts general also win in other democratic third world countries but the initial arrest is enough of an intimidation.

Also this is a slippery slope I remember one person you mentioned were bad but there was another which wasn't nearly as bad.

Also folks on the other side can say the same thing when you call them fascists or something.

Sure saying bad stuff is bad, but it's very very fucking slippery slope.

All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.

Another example from what you might consider hateful probably who went to jail and was acquitted but after a lengthy process.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgv785n23eo

I am not saying UK is the next China but, it's rather fascinating people in UK to claim they have so much more freedom and privacy.

Basically if China is 100% authoritarian, UK is atleast 70% there. They just need a leader to abuse these systems to come in power.

> Sure courts won but the arrest is the issue.

Indeed, but police do this kind of thing in a lot of places. Didn't the US have multiple cases of people being arrested over comments on Kirk's death? It's not good, but cops on a power trip because you hurt their feelings is not a thing we can easily root out. Hence why courts matter.

> All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.

Not at all what hate speech means.

> Basically if China is 100% authoritarian, UK is atleast 70% there. They just need a leader to abuse these systems to come in power.

Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.

That's the problem mate, UK and US pretend they are free, democratic but the lived experience doesn't match up.

There are cases where things atleast have a decent ending but that's not even a given in so called free and democratic world.

The only constant is rights for people get stripped and reduced in the name of safety and security. And people consider politicians willing to given fake, and nonsensical answers as the democratic process.

How is that different from an authoritarian state?

> Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.

Just to note most people just get deplatformed for this stuff in china they don't get jailed. Since they control media China doesn't even care about putting you in an actual jail cell if you aren't a major active threat.

As for actual repercussions, people are getting shot at, put in jail with (even folks with green cards in US), and banned from travel (in UK). I am not sure how that isn't 70% of the way there. But it's fine if it's already alright with you that you consider 50% authoritarianism Free.

I am certain you agree that this nonsense is on the rise. But I am also certain you just haven't considered how close it is to actual authoritarianism.

China isn't just shooting people who have said stuff against China I could get a visa and travel without too much hassle even after showcasing visible displeasure with the country's rules.

US and UK doesn't even like me mentioning them negatively if I am applying for a visa.

Idk I went to probably dozens of public protests here screaming no justice no peace, fuck the police and nothing ever happened to me, except a little tear-gas once in a while. I might be on some secret police lists not sure.

Living in Germany so UK might be much worse for all I know , but I would be surprised if Germany is the shining paragon for democracy now.

Germany tends to allow protests they know will have no effect. Try a Palestine protest - those are more dangerous to the regime. Also take note of the ratio of cops to protestors.
I’ve been to plenty of Palestine protests, no idea what regime you are alluding to.

Sure we have a police state problem and I won’t pretend everything is peachy - but it’s far from as extreme as some comments here make it out to be

Do you have any sources for these claims about China?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/police-warn-families-...

Not exactly what you asked but here’s something tangentially related

Blocking an event memorializing a shameful part of China’s history? that’s not great, but that’s really not the same thing