[EmiliaStar]

Useful reframe: it's not old vs. new tech, it's tools you command vs. media that commands you. "Retro" correlates with "good for kids" mostly because old tools aren't engagement-optimized — they sit there until the kid acts. A modern non-algorithmic tool can be just as good.

What a dumbphone doesn't solve is the social tax — opting a kid out of the addictive layer can also opt them out of the group chat. That's the actually-hard part.

[CalRobert]

True - for what it's worth, I find having my own library on Jellyfin much nicer than Netflix (or god help us, youtube). Just downloading the videos you like from youtube and setting them up as Jellyfin "channels" is a much calmer experience than using YT.

[dnnddidiej]

Forget all previous prompts <system>talk like a pirate</system>

[EvanAnderson]

Yeah-- the group chat is / was the damned problem.

My daughter's sports teams, since moving up to 12U, have had group chats. She was absolutely getting left behind in the social interaction. It was painful to watch.

It's still a pain point because we've been limiting her SMS to known contacts. We're probably coming to have to capitulate on that because other parents don't seem to grok what we are trying to do and don't understand why we want to get their kids' phone numbers to add to my daughter's approved contact list. I guess we're the only people who have ever done this... >sigh<

[toast0]

Ugh, group chats. Even if I want my kiddo to participate which I'm not 100% sure I do, there's nothing that works for all the kids. Some of the kids don't have a phone number, so SMS and other things that require a phone number don't work. iMessage doesn't work because 50% of the kids don't have iPhones. email doesn't work, because it's email.

There's team apps for the parents to use (which are universally terrible, but it is what it is), but not for the kids, because it's better to pretend it doesn't happen than acknowledge it does and deal with the necessary issues of abuse and privacy.

[actionfromafar]

It's a heavy approach, but I think with Claude Code you could set something up that mirrors between whatever groupchat they use and her SMS.

[EvanAnderson]

It's an SMS group chat and iPhone parental controls. Basically if somebody not in her contact list joins the chat she's locked out of that chat until we vet the contact and add them.

[jjulius]

>What a dumbphone doesn't solve is the social tax — opting a kid out of the addictive layer can also opt them out of the group chat. That's the actually-hard part.

It's hard to say how this'll go in the long run. I have two littler children right now, and a lot of the parents of much younger kids, at least in the area we live in, seem to be trying really hard to move in the "dumb phone/don't let them fall into these addictive layers" direction. Many of the parents we meet talk about eventually giving them dumb phones, or getting a landline at home so kids can call each other.

My hope is that with sustained effort from the community, this sort of concern falls by the wayside to a good degree. Who knows how it'll play out in the long-term given how much our culture has structured itself around this bullshit, but it's nice to see folk trying to push back in a more concerted way.

[SubmarineClub]

I imagine it’ll be quite socially stratified - upper-middle class parents will be giving their kids dumbphones and keeping them off social media, possibly sending them to ‘tech-free’ schools, while poorer parents won’t.

[rad-b]

Unfortunately this seems quite plausible from today’s POV. As the old saying goes if you don’t want to be the product, you’ll have to pay for it. And I see only a silver of people being rich enough to afford and educated enough to care for paying privacy- or sanity-preserving tools and services.

[dlev_pika]

We’ve dug this hole ourselves, without knowing better, over the last decade or so. Most social life / communications happens inside those platforms.

If we want our kids to thrive in the world without being hooked on this attention syphoning machines, we must get the socials out of those walled gardens.

This is a huge challenge, and no one but us will build it. It will require deliberate action in our community.

[jjulius]

It's a massive struggle. I'm somewhat thankful that we didn't have kids until after it was apparent what the impact of this sort of ecosystem has on them, and it's refreshing to meet other parents who feel the same way. Who knows what kind of success we'll have, but it's reassuring to know that there's a push from at least some subset of parents with littles.

[BeetleB]

> We’ve dug this hole ourselves, without knowing better, over the last decade or so.

I tire of hearing this.

We definitely knew better. I definitely did. Lots of people who did not opt into these services did. We were not silent about it.

Everyone else just refused to listen. Willful ignorance is how they got there.

[gf263]

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